I want to buy something semi-auto in the .308 caliber. I'm currently looking at a LaRue forged receiver M1A or a LWRC REPR.
Does anybody know anything about LWRC?
Looks like a gas-piston Stoner variant with a modified charging mechanism chambered for .308. Quite a few neat ideas incorporated in one platform.
The big drawback to the Stoner design was the gas system (direct impingement) because it has a nasty habit of building up carbon deposits on the bolt and receiver while burning off lubrication. Much simpler, but less reliable. I'm looking for piston uppers for me AR15 right now to be honest.
The side charging handle is neat from the standpoint of not having to remove your eyes from the scope to reload... but with a 20rd clip I don't see the need.
Both the stoner design and the M1A sort of designs are good (my old man has a socom II), the M1A is definitely heavier in my opinion though and the pistol grip is a must have for me in a semi-auto. I'd go with a .308 stoner over the M1A most any day. however, if you are in California (or any other gun-nazi state) you are probably better off with the M1A because you get around the assault rifle thing by not having the pistol grip.
Quote from: Punx Clever on January 04, 2010, 11:51:06 AM
Looks like a gas-piston Stoner variant with a modified charging mechanism chambered for .308. Quite a few neat ideas incorporated in one platform.
The big drawback to the Stoner design was the gas system (direct impingement) because it has a nasty habit of building up carbon deposits on the bolt and receiver while burning off lubrication. Much simpler, but less reliable.
I always liked the H&K rolloer lock mechanism for that reason. And I am in CA or I'd probably own one by now. Delayed blowback action, and the fluted chamber is reliable even in extreme temps.
Shouldn't this be in the NoMoto section, or are you planing a side mount on your duc?lol
How about a Rock River Lar-8. I know of one thats for sale.
http://www.rockriverarms.com/images/products/pu308m.gif (http://www.rockriverarms.com/images/products/pu308m.gif)
the rock river has a weak bolt which was required to allow the use of FAL mags. As far as stoner vs HK, I'll take a rifle that doesn't destroy the brass vs one that does, and fluted chambers really really suck. If you want a battle rifle, you could do far worse than an FAL and DSA makes really nice ones. Adjustable gas system, proven design and inexpensive magazines. Alternatively, you could just pick up a garand from the CMP and get it rebarrelled in .308. I have a couple in that caliber, and they work quite well, the enbloc clips are readily available, reusable and extremely inexpensive.
Just wanted to add that I put thousands of rounds downrange with my direct impingement m-16 full auto, and I never had a problem with reliability other than melting a gas tube which was after multiple beta c dumps with full tracer. I really wish I hadn't sold it.
Awesome stuff. I had also been looking at both the HK and the FAL. I meant to put this in No Moto, but I screwed that one up. How does one go about moving a topic?
ask a mod, they can do it.
Quote from: angler on January 04, 2010, 12:59:12 PM
Awesome stuff. I had also been looking at both the HK and the FAL. I meant to put this in No Moto, but I screwed that one up. How does one go about moving a topic?
Quote from: cduarte on January 04, 2010, 01:07:59 PM
ask a mod, they can do it.
FTR...
the OP can move their own thread.
Scroll to the bottom of the page and you should see some options to lock and move your topic.
I got this one for ya.
Quote from: cduarte on January 04, 2010, 12:50:55 PM
the rock river has a weak bolt which was required to allow the use of FAL mags. As far as stoner vs HK, I'll take a rifle that doesn't destroy the brass vs one that does, and fluted chambers really really suck. If you want a battle rifle, you could do far worse than an FAL and DSA makes really nice ones. Adjustable gas system, proven design and inexpensive magazines. Alternatively, you could just pick up a garand from the CMP and get it rebarrelled in .308. I have a couple in that caliber, and they work quite well, the enbloc clips are readily available, reusable and extremely inexpensive.
Just wanted to add that I put thousands of rounds downrange with my direct impingement m-16 full auto, and I never had a problem with reliability other than melting a gas tube which was after multiple beta c dumps with full tracer. I really wish I hadn't sold it.
I agree. I've had HK91s, many M1As and a lot of Belguim FN/FALs (including G series sear cut FALs). HKs do indeed dent brass, even with the ejection port snap on rubber bumper. Still a good hardy battle rifle. I love my M1As and my FALs... but I love my FALs just a little more. [thumbsup] Thought about a SOCOM/M1A for fun but I have enough crap to keep up with already. Check out the DSA FAL rifles. Don't have a DSA version but I have read torture tests on them and they held up very well. I like what I have heard and read.
btw, if you want something really exotic, check out this little toy I just bought.
(http://home.comcast.net/~c.duarte/bm62a.jpg)
btw, it's italian... [bacon]
Quote from: ducpainter on January 04, 2010, 01:10:10 PM
the OP can move their own thread.
Scroll to the bottom of the page and you should see some options to lock and move your topic.
I got this one for ya.
Duh.....Thanks DP
Quote from: cduarte on January 04, 2010, 01:18:39 PM
btw, if you want something really exotic, check out this little toy I just bought.
(http://home.comcast.net/~c.duarte/bm62a.jpg)
btw, it's italian... [bacon]
Very cool, a Beretta BM59! I had friend that had two.
I have an older M1A built with surplus GI parts and a FAL. I can out shoot the FAL
and or anyone on it anytime with the M1A. The surplus parts build a much better rifle than anything
you can purchase new.
Quote from: fastwin on January 04, 2010, 01:35:13 PM
Very cool, a Beretta BM59! I had friend that had two.
actually, it's a BM62, only 2000 were imported.
I have to admit that one of my National Match M1A's will outshoot my FALs but accuracy aside I just like the FALs. My Hayabusa is faster than my Ducs but I still like my Ducs better... same sort of thing. [thumbsup]
Quote from: cduarte on January 04, 2010, 02:26:42 PM
actually, it's a BM62, only 2000 were imported.
Ooops, thought it was a class III select fire BM59.
Don't get me wrong. I love shooting the FAL, it's alot of fun.
BUT, I think of it more for supressive fire type of weapon.
My GI parts kit M1A on the other hand, I do Appleseed shoots with it and
regularly shoot expert with it. Just saying accuracy wise my M1A is hands and above
a better shooting rifle.
Certainly no argument from me. [thumbsup] Nothing better than a fine tuned National Match M1A, thousands of military snipers and competition shooters would agree. I don't think the original poster can go wrong with either weapon. ;D
I have a Socom 1 and am very happy with it. With 165 Grain Hornady SST's, it shoots sub inch for the first 5 or so shots. Then it opens up a bit with heat but its still way more accurate than a 16" semi auto 308 needs to be. I have had one FAL of my own and two others that I have first hand experience with that have had no end of trouble - I know they have a great reputation but in my rather extensive personal experience, they have given me trouble. I have seen no end of trouble with AR style 308's. Jim Clark from Clark custom guns told me that Knight would give him rifles if he would shoot them in competition but he cannot get them to be reliably accurate enough to win with. My friend, a Green Beret weapon specialist on an active A-team said he had 10 of the Knight super duper semi auto sniper rifles in Iraq on his last tour and all but one of them was very poor. They have a very poor reputation with the guys that use them for real. I would go with a Socom 1 or a Springfield Armory Scout. I haven't shot the HK's enough to have a valid opinion about them.
I Like Guns - Steve Lee (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TC2xTCb_GU#normal)
Depending on your budget and exactly what it is you want to do with it, there is the FN SCAR. A few of the guys I work with got to play with it before they retired and they loved it. I would love one but I can't see myself paying that kind of money.
Quote from: ato memphis on January 05, 2010, 10:29:23 AM
I Like Guns - Steve Lee (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TC2xTCb_GU#normal)
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=33333.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=33333.0)
i thought it would be appropriate here too, that way we could all sing along again
Hmmmm
Wants a semi auto .308
I am partial to the M14. Build it yourself with a double lugged bedded receiver and NM barrel and you have astonishing accuracy.
I also like a FAL. Plenty of work has been done on them. If you want to see what a FAL is capable of, read on this: http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68486 (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68486)
I doubt many rifle systems could deal with that abuse.
is this your only option? one rifle? if so, get something you can learn inside and out and have plenty of spares for (or have access to cheap spares)
I don't care for the brace of AR / Stoner style 7.62/308s that have come around. Most are decent, I just don't think it's a great design for that round.
If you just want something cheap that shoots that round, the Century Arms CETMEs are fun. Finish is so so but they click and go bang just fine. They are fun.
^ I was just going to comment again on a plus on the FAL.
You can abuse the hell out of them as opposed the the M14 platform.
If it gets nasty and dirty as hell in the battlefield you can crank down on the
gas system and it will keep cycling. To my knowledge building an M14/M1A is really hard
for the average person due to specialized tools needed to attach the barrel to the receiver.
Where as the FAL, that was a pretty easy build with a DRS receiver.
Quote from: ducatiz on January 06, 2010, 06:41:35 AM
Hmmmm
Wants a semi auto .308
I am partial to the M14. Build it yourself with a double lugged bedded receiver and NM barrel and you have astonishing accuracy.
I also like a FAL. Plenty of work has been done on them. If you want to see what a FAL is capable of, read on this: http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68486 (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68486)
I doubt many rifle systems could deal with that abuse.
is this your only option? one rifle? if so, get something you can learn inside and out and have plenty of spares for (or have access to cheap spares)
I don't care for the brace of AR / Stoner style 7.62/308s that have come around. Most are decent, I just don't think it's a great design for that round.
If you just want something cheap that shoots that round, the Century Arms CETMEs are fun. Finish is so so but they click and go bang just fine. They are fun.
I'm leaning towards building an M14/M1A at the moment.
It would be the first rifle - I want something to take to the battlements when the commie landing crafts come ashore on the Potomac. Or for the zombie hoard that is coming soon. I figure I'll need to battle my way west at some point in the future.
When I lived in AZ, shooting was a big part of my life, but I pared my collection way down when I moved east and haven't been in the sport.
I don't think it would be my only rifle moving forward, but who knows. Why do you ask? Do you have any other suggestions? I would like an AR in .223 eventually, but felt the .308 would be a better first long gun.
I would build it in the match/sniper direction so that I could also use it to hunt game where semi autos are allowed.
I built mine and had a smith do the barrel and headspace on my bolt. That's the only part.
I've built a few FALS and yes, you only need a bench vise and a wrench to do the barrel install. You might have to shim on a rebuilt receiver, but that's not common. Indexing the barrel is the only tricky part.
I would not say the M14 build is that much trickier outside of that. Have the smith do the M14 barrel and you're headspaced to go. With the FAL, you still have to set headspace which requires some knowledge and effort (and headspace tools)
i bought a set of machined dowels for headspacing. Used them about 5 times, but it wouldn't be cost effective for a single build.
Quote from: ducatiz on January 06, 2010, 06:41:35 AM
is this your only option? one rifle?
nobody should own only one. :(
Quote from: ato memphis on January 06, 2010, 10:24:54 AM
nobody should own only one. :(
i know man, so true.
instead of these stupid bank bail outs, people should have gotten a coupon to buy a rifle.
rofl
Perhaps one per caliber. That's a more reasonable limitation (if self-imposed, or dictated by the spousal unit). But everybody should own something small and fun like a 10/22, along with several other semi-auto rifles, some double guns, a kalishnikov patterned rifle, and a bunch of other fun toys. Some modern, some classic (like a Sharps or other lever action). Unlike bikes, they don't really depreciate. Like bikes, they all have strong points and advantages in specific situations.
I agree with that, but I'm trying not to go outside .22lr, .223, .308. .30-06, 5.45x39, 7.62x39, 7.62x54r, and .45-70. The only caliber I'd really like to get is .260rem.
It's funny how gun folks and bike folks go together... there's a pattern here. Guns aren't for everyone and I respect that. Just like bikes aren't for everyone. But there is definitley a gun/bike "thing" going on. Probably just a gear head thing. Which I can truly appreciate. [thumbsup] [drink] [clap]
you've seen my monster, my 10/22 is not much different. My 1911 is only a little "modded". ;)
+1 to Izaak on the M14 or whatever you want to call it.
My brother has a Springfield.
That thing kicks ass.
I wouldn't buy the SOCOM version, only difference is a shorter barrel which reduces accuracy.
20rnd mag and you are set.
Heavy gun to lug around but will do the deed.
I want to buy my wife one for her 29th birthday this month (yes, she wants one, how cool is that?) however, might buy something else instead.
Quote from: ato memphis on January 06, 2010, 10:30:43 AM
Perhaps one per caliber. That's a more reasonable limitation (if self-imposed, or dictated by the spousal unit). But everybody should own something small and fun like a 10/22, along with several other semi-auto rifles, some double guns, a kalishnikov patterned rifle, and a bunch of other fun toys. Some modern, some classic (like a Sharps or other lever action). Unlike bikes, they don't really depreciate. Like bikes, they all have strong points and advantages in specific situations.
Everyone needs something huge too just for fun and to remind us we are human.
Like my Ruger #1 in 375 H&H and my Ruger M77 in 458 Lott.
I do hunt with the 375. The 458 is fun cause I can download it way down and keep it fun to shoot.
Then slip a hot loaded 500 grain roundnose into the mix. the 458 is exciting to shoot to say the least.
shorter barrels don't reduce accuracy. in fact a shorter barrel of the same diameter is stiffer than the longer one, which results in better accuracy. BTW, of hte rifles that you mentioned, the socom may be less accurate but that would be because the sight radius is shorter.
Depending on the loads, You'll find a reduction in velocity with the short barrels.
My understanding of the M80 ball is that 16in barrels are good to about 500ish meters.
18in barrels to about 800 meters and 22in to 1000+ meters.
Just depends on what you plan on shooting.
I have a shotgun and side arm for close stuff. I feel the socom is good for urban use,
shots under 200 meters that is. I live in an area where 500+ is the norm so taylor my weapons
to that and want the accuracy out to 1000 meters.
I gear up for urban too. 100-200 meters is good enough for me. Hell, I can't see good enough at 1,000m to really care. If a bad guy is that far away I will just get in my car and drive off and save the ammo. [laugh]
Quote from: fastwin on January 06, 2010, 05:17:04 PM
It's funny how gun folks and bike folks go together... there's a pattern here. Guns aren't for everyone and I respect that. Just like bikes aren't for everyone. But there is definitley a gun/bike "thing" going on. Probably just a gear head thing. Which I can truly appreciate. [thumbsup] [drink] [clap]
Or part of it is that a lot of the people on here make enough to be able to afford such toys.
Quote from: MrIncredible on January 07, 2010, 02:54:11 PM
Or part of it is that a lot of the people on here make enough to be able to afford such toys.
only until recently shooting was a cheapish hobby
i used to buy cases of 7.62 nato (308) for around 10 cents a round.. some times Lake City milsurp for 12-15 cents/rd
combloc stuff was 7-8 cents/ rd
i had to pick just two hobbies. i picked guns and motorcycles. good bye scuba diving (kept all my outdoors gear though). Guns is my winter activity and when its too hot in the summer to do anything. I don't really think of guns as a hobby though, I think of it as a regular part of life, a necessity. Motorcycles is my 'fun'.
Ammo is the new currency. Forget dollars and cents. I have bartered back and forth for the last year with bike/shooting friends with ammo not cash. I thought Y2K/1999 would bring the curse we now see on the ammo market. Guess I was 10 years ahead of the curve. I didn't freak out about Y2K like so many others. I just told all my friends that I'd just come to their home with my AR15 and take what I needed! [laugh] But I did stock pile ammo thinking what is happening now would have happened in 1999. It's the only good investment I have ever made. Better than bikes! [thumbsup] Shooting will never be cheap again... unfortunately.:P
If you guys insist on making political comments in every gun thread
we won't have gun threads.
It's simple
yeah, let's not get these threads closed down. nate has a gun or two and is known for killin' and eatin' snipe, so he's not anti gun. everyone knows that the screw has turned a little bit on gun owners and there are plenty of places to talk about that with impunity.
How about 22lr conversions! Anybody got 'em? I have one for the 1911, a Marvel. Quite nice. Wish I could get the same sights (nightsights) put on it as I have on my regular 45 slide, so that its the same, but way cheap to shoot.
You have to reload to be able to afford to shoot.
I picked up 2500 brass in 7.62x51 for $200 at a gun show.
I grabbed 2000 bullets at scharch.com that ran about $350
primers were around $60.
Already had alot of powder so....
Runs me about 30 cents to reload the first round.
After that i don't count the cost of the brass and the 2nd round of
reloading the cost is about 20 cents per round for bullets and primers.
It's the way to go. I have around 5000 rounds loaded and sealed and ready to go
at all times.
I was looking at Cabela's for ammo for my 375 H&H and they run commercially $9 per round
it costs me about 45 cents to reload them.
Quote from: ducpainter on January 08, 2010, 03:31:35 AM
If you guys insist on making political comments in every gun thread
we won't have gun threads.
It's simple
You're right. Sorry, just trying to be a smarta@@. I edited it out. Carry on. [thumbsup]
My friends that reload say they are having trouble getting the components that they need. I don't know if the shortage is still going on but they were all moaning over the lack of primers. Maybe things have eased up. The cost of loaded ammo damn sure hasn't. It's been several months ago but I saw a guy selling one box of Winchester "white box" .380 ball ammo on ebay and the bid was up to $50!!! Ridiculous... :P
It's getting much better now. All the "gun nuts" ;) had a knee jerk reaction
and started buying up everything. For a while you couldn't get primers, powder, or brass.
Some stuff it still hard to find like 45acp brass. It's getting alot easier to find now.
I can finally go and buy a case of primers when I need them rather than plan ahead and search.
One store north of me actually was rationing primers. They would only sell 200 at a time to anyone.
I suppose it spread them around rather than allowing some jerk that would go buy all 10 cases.
just to horde them.
Quote from: fastwin on January 08, 2010, 12:31:17 PM
You're right. Sorry, just trying to be a smarta@@. I edited it out. Carry on. [thumbsup]
My friends that reload say they are having trouble getting the components that they need. I don't know if the shortage is still going on but they were all moaning over the lack of primers. Maybe things have eased up. The cost of loaded ammo damn sure hasn't. It's been several months ago but I saw a guy selling one box of Winchester "white box" .380 ball ammo on ebay and the bid was up to $50!!! Ridiculous... :P
on ebay?
I bought a walther scope (ps44) on there from germany and they (and paypal) closed my account for buying gun related itmes even though the sale had happened months before. There pretty strict wiht this stuff. I don't think they'd allow ammo to be actioned off.
also I'm :'( about .380 virtually dissapearing... I have a PPKS that is starving. that little pistol shoots great, but I haven't shot it in over a year.
at least I'm starting to fin bulk 9mm and 22lr again.. [thumbsup]
BTW I picked up a XD9 used.. $350 with 200 rounds, a extra mag and some hokey tactical stuff (that I guess comes with these pistols).
I initally wasn't in love with the pistol till after I shot it. wow, it shoots very well, great trigger and easy to control, I also like the grip safety.
Yep, there were shops here in Dallas, TX rationing primers. Don't know how many they would sell you at a pop, just had reloading friends tell me that was their experience. Glad it's getting better. That whole .380acp shortage thing was/is nuts. I guess lots of folks picked up the little Ruger LCPs about the time the crunch hit and the bingo... no more .380 anywhere. I guess the manufacturers were cranking out so much 9mm for military/police orders they didn't care about the lost .380 sales.
Quote from: acalles on January 08, 2010, 01:15:29 PM
BTW I picked up a XD9 used.. $350 with 200 rounds, a extra mag and some hokey tactical stuff (that I guess comes with these pistols).
I initally wasn't in love with the pistol till after I shot it. wow, it shoots very well, great trigger and easy to control, I also like the grip safety.
I'm looking for one in 45. My bro-in-law got one as part of his concealed carry course and loves it. So do I.....
I've considering getting into reloading just so I can shoot my PPKS and .30cal luger.
I've only ever found one box of .30luger any where and it was $50 for 50. its another great pistol I rarely get to shoot.
Quote from: angler on January 08, 2010, 01:21:36 PM
I'm looking for one in 45. My bro-in-law got one as part of his concealed carry course and loves it. So do I.....
We have (me included!) thread jacked the sh#t out of your thread. So much to the point I had forgotten that you wanted a semi auto .308 to start with. Lots of good advice and ideas in all these posts, has any of it pushed you one way or another on what you might get? Just curious. ???
Quote from: fastwin on January 09, 2010, 01:37:35 PM
We have (me included!) thread jacked the sh#t out of your thread. So much to the point I had forgotten that you wanted a semi auto .308 to start with. Lots of good advice and ideas in all these posts, has any of it pushed you one way or another on what you might get? Just curious. ???
I have been doing a little of the jacking myself.......
I'm pretty much back where I started - looking for a forged receiver M14/M1A. I saw a REPR recently and it got me thinking about other actions in this caliber. It seems that this thread falls pretty much in line with Boston's Gun Bible - M1A best, FAL and AR10 (and other Stoner variants) somewhere behind it. I'm in no real hurry, looking for a good deal on the right gun, so if anyone hears of one, let me know.
Quote from: angler on January 11, 2010, 03:46:53 AM
I have been doing a little of the jacking myself.......
I'm pretty much back where I started - looking for a forged receiver M14/M1A. I saw a REPR recently and it got me thinking about other actions in this caliber. It seems that this thread falls pretty much in line with Boston's Gun Bible - M1A best, FAL and AR10 (and other Stoner variants) somewhere behind it. I'm in no real hurry, looking for a good deal on the right gun, so if anyone hears of one, let me know.
you want a finished piece or you want to build?
If you have the coin, check out the LRB receivers and rifles. They make the receivers the original method -- hammer forged. Actually, Norinco/Polytech does as well but their finishing is not as good and their bolts are known to have bad heat treat or just soft.
The Polytech M14 rifles are very nice otherwise. If you pick one up (they are relatively cheap) send it to Fulton and have them work it over and replace the bolt with a USGI model (and fit it). Walt Kuleck swears by them, I sold him a brand new one ages ago that I had sitting in the box. He works wonders.
Quote from: ducatiz on January 11, 2010, 03:51:02 AM
you want a finished piece or you want to build?
If you have the coin, check out the LRB receivers and rifles. They make the receivers the original method -- hammer forged. Actually, Norinco/Polytech does as well but their finishing is not as good and their bolts are known to have bad heat treat or just soft.
The Polytech M14 rifles are very nice otherwise. If you pick one up (they are relatively cheap) send it to Fulton and have them work it over and replace the bolt with a USGI model (and fit it). Walt Kuleck swears by them, I sold him a brand new one ages ago that I had sitting in the box. He works wonders.
If the right built gun came along, I would buy it, but I also like to mod (why I'm in this forum actually).
Good tip on Polytech - looks like they have a pretty good rep for a cheap gun.
Quote from: angler on January 11, 2010, 04:02:18 AM
If the right built gun came along, I would buy it, but I also like to mod (why I'm in this forum actually).
Good tip on Polytech - looks like they have a pretty good rep for a cheap gun.
yeah, you will be surprised. their barrels are very good. most of the parts are a-ok, the wood looks good and is hard (some kind of funky chinese burl).. fulton will do a full swapout, just keeping the receiver or partial (i.e. keep the barrel).. and swap out to USGI stuff.
Quote from: ducatiz on January 11, 2010, 04:09:48 AM
yeah, you will be surprised. their barrels are very good. most of the parts are a-ok, the wood looks good and is hard (some kind of funky chinese burl).. fulton will do a full swapout, just keeping the receiver or partial (i.e. keep the barrel).. and swap out to USGI stuff.
Just went over to Fulton's web site - I've got too much stuff to do today to get sidetracked like that.....
DROOL.....
(http://www.fulton-armory.com/SOCOM-SASS-600.jpg)
Quote from: ducatiz on January 11, 2010, 04:09:48 AM
yeah, you will be surprised. their barrels are very good. most of the parts are a-ok, the wood looks good and is hard (some kind of funky chinese burl).. fulton will do a full swapout, just keeping the receiver or partial (i.e. keep the barrel).. and swap out to USGI stuff.
you'd be better off having smith enterprises do the USGI bolt conversion, pretty much all the other parts are good (the barrels are excellent) except for the sights. If you do get a polytech, I would do the USGI bolt conversion, put garand sights on it and replace the stock, trigger group and flash suppressor with USGI as well.
Quote from: cduarte on January 11, 2010, 06:08:04 AM
you'd be better off having smith enterprises do the USGI bolt conversion, pretty much all the other parts are good (the barrels are excellent) except for the sights. If you do get a polytech, I would do the USGI bolt conversion, put garand sights on it and replace the stock, trigger group and flash suppressor with USGI as well.
why do you say Smith > Fulton?
because smith has been doing those conversions for a long time, plus they have .gov contracts. Also, i'm not a big fan of fulton, just my opinion.
[Total thread jack]
bore sight tools.
anyone have any inexpensive favorites?
I'm not looking for sub moa first shot.
paper would be nice.
[end]
can't lie, i hate the laser one i bought that goes in the chamber. believe its for 7.62x39, can't recall. the bullet did not go where it said it was going to go at all.
Quote from: ato memphis on January 11, 2010, 03:13:25 PM
can't lie, i hate the laser one i bought that goes in the chamber. believe its for 7.62x39, can't recall. the bullet did not go where it said it was going to go at all.
I'm looking for something 'universal'.
I've seen magnetic ones and arbor style that fit in the end of the bore.
I shoot 22, and 223, for now and most of the cartridge types don't work in a 22.
i picked up a laser model that has multiple fit. i forget the brand. it comes with a target that will put you on the paper at 100 yds if you do it right. if you have a bullet drop scope, make sure its set up right too.
i don't think you'll find any for 22 though. just not enough chamber space to insert a laser.
the muzzle end types are so so. i have one that's an old school optical model and it is a pain in the ass to use. you have to have a bench mount with clamps to hold hte rifle and the muzzle bit is held in by friction and magnet. pain in the ass.
Quote from: ducatiz on January 11, 2010, 04:18:43 PM
i picked up a laser model that has multiple fit. i forget the brand. it comes with a target that will put you on the paper at 100 yds if you do it right. if you have a bullet drop scope, make sure its set up right too.
nothing that fancy...
I was kinda looking for brand recommendations.
If you read the reviews on the different on line sites the info seems to be so widely spread that either the equipment is sketchy or the users are.
Quote from: cduarte on January 11, 2010, 02:59:19 PM
because smith has been doing those conversions for a long time, plus they have .gov contracts. Also, i'm not a big fan of fulton, just my opinion.
if i remember correctly, it was Fulton who started the conversions -- Kuleck and McKee were doing them ages ago. but who knows?
smiths have some great parts tho.
Can you pull the bolt on your .22 or .223? If so try the old skool eyeball method..... Scope or open sights?
Quote from: rgramjet on January 11, 2010, 05:02:23 PM
Can you pull the bolt on your .22 or .223? If so try the old skool eyeball method..... Scope or open sights?
I can remove the bolt on both.
the 223 is fine.
I just replaced the scope on the 22 because the one that was on it would not allow the bolt to be removed be cause the ocular was too big.
I'll give that a try.
Anyone know about Mosin Nagant's?
I was at the local gun shop the other day and they had quite a few M90/30's and M91's.. some of them looked in good condition, some not so much (the M91's looked better condition) and most of the cosmoline was gone. they were in the $100-$150 range.
so anything I should know before going back in to look? There's a ton of stuff on them on the intarwebs but personal experience would be cool.
and yeah, I know the ammo is corrosive..
hex receivers are more desirable, if you can get one made by remington or westinghouse it's even better. If the receiver date is before 1898 it's not considered a firearm by atf. Other things to look for are a counterbored muzzle, which isn't necessarily a bad thing as it was done to recondition rifles with worn muzzles.
DP -- how often are you planning to use the boresight? One of our local shops will boresight a scoped rifle for $4 a pop -- at that rate, it's pretty hard for me to rationalize buying a tool I'd use maybe once every year or two.
OK, let me rephrase that -- I know that it's WAY TO EASY for me to rationalize buying a tool I'll only use every couple of years, so I try to avoid it when I can.
A boresite tool has limited utility as a device for "sighting in" a rifle. They will usually get you on paper but that is about the limit of their ability in that function. That being said, they are very useful for two things.
1. Diagnosing scope problems - A boresighter can be a godsend when a rifle is not shooting, to determine
if the adjusters are tracking correctly, or if the crosshairs are jumping with recoil.
2. Confirming the zero on a properly set up rifle. Once I have a rifle zeroed with a specific load (or loads), I throw in the boresighter and record the settings. If you feel the need to check the zero without firing a shot or have removed the scope and want to replace it to zero, throw in the boresighter and set the crosshairs to the recorded settings and you are back in business - or close to it.
I have this described in detail in a book I co-authored called "Dead On" available through Paladin Press (Blatant Plug)
Quote from: cduarte on January 11, 2010, 07:00:26 PM
hex receivers are more desirable, if you can get one made by remington or westinghouse it's even better. If the receiver date is before 1898 it's not considered a firearm by atf. Other things to look for are a counterbored muzzle, which isn't necessarily a bad thing as it was done to recondition rifles with worn muzzles.
cool, I'll check them out.. I'd like a strong bolt action with decent accuracy and cheap ammo ;D
If I decide to pick one up, maybe I'll add one of these and some lasers, a flashlight and a 50x scope
(http://www.tickbitesupply.com/mostrib.jpg)
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
Quote from: acalles on January 11, 2010, 05:53:07 PM
Anyone know about Mosin Nagant's?
I was at the local gun shop the other day and they had quite a few M90/30's and M91's.. some of them looked in good condition, some not so much (the M91's looked better condition) and most of the cosmoline was gone. they were in the $100-$150 range.
so anything I should know before going back in to look? There's a ton of stuff on them on the intarwebs but personal experience would be cool.
and yeah, I know the ammo is corrosive..
At that price, all the models are rearsenaled Russian models. They are shooter guns and a lot of fun. You won't find any American made models (Remingtons) or Finns.
Buy the best looking one you can find there and love it. You may nitpick, but unless you really range test and tear them down, you won't see the difference.
The best Mosins are the Finnish models -- The Finns kicked the Russian's asses in the first Winter War and went around and picked up all the infantry Mosins the russians dropped or died with -- put them in the arsenal and fixed them, i.e. put decent barrels on them and trued the receivers. I have a 1943 Tula Mosin that was a Finn SKYE rearsenal and it is a tack driver with all but the shittiest 762x54 machine gun ammo.
The problem with the ammo is that most of it is MG ammo. VERY hot and who gives a damn if it's corrosive mentality when they made it.
Corrosive ammo is not a big deal, just clean your barrel for corrosive as described widely on the web. Warm water + ammonia, then oil and clean as normal. I've shot plenty of corrosive ammo and have zero problems. EEZOX is your friend.
I just wish Ciener would send my make the beast with two backsing AR lower back and my conversion kit.
It has seriously been way too make the beast with two backsing long.
///threadjack over
Quote from: cyrus buelton on January 12, 2010, 07:06:45 AM
I just wish Ciener would send my make the beast with two backsing AR lower back and my conversion kit.
It has seriously been way too make the beast with two backsing long.
///threadjack over
Really? Is that an order or a suggestion... The jack has been all the fun of this thread!
We've gone from semi-auto .308 to 45 handguns to reloading to boresighting and now to 7.62 bolt actions. All good stuff.
Quote from: angler on January 12, 2010, 08:19:46 AM
Really? Is that an order or a suggestion... The jack has been all the fun of this thread!
We've gone from semi-auto .308 to 45 handguns to reloading to boresighting and now to 7.62 bolt actions. All good stuff.
He was ending his threadjack.
Quote from: kopfjäger on January 12, 2010, 09:20:50 AM
He was ending his threadjack.
I realize that. It was sarcasm. Just saying that this thread has gone so far afield, why not add a little ranting about a smith......
Quote from: angler on January 12, 2010, 09:27:16 AM
I realize that. It was sarcasm. Just saying that this thread has gone so far afield, why not add a little ranting about a smith......
[thumbsup]
Im just happy whenever DP comes over to the Threadjacking Darkside!
[evil]
I picked up a CMMG conversion kit for AR's a while ago and am very happy with it. It is extremely reliable with high velocity ammunition but accuracy is very ammo dependent. Wolf Match Target will shoot 1/2" at 50 yards but with limited reliability (being standard velocity) and just about any high velocity ammo will function 100% but accuracy varies from about an inch to 4+ inches depending on ammo. The magazines are very robust and are the same size as standard 30 round mags which makes it nice for mag changing drills, etc. This is in a 16" gun I assembled using Rock River upper and lower, Yankee hill smooth carbine handguard and a DPMS standard barrel.
I was drooling at my local gun store last night, and apparently the assault rifle shortage is over. They had 20 AR's in stock, 2 HK USC's (one used), a bunch of FAL's, one M1A Springfield Scout, and an FN BAR. The BAR was dressed in sort of a tactical fashion with a fluted bull barrel etc. I know they are accurate platforms, but how is the hop up market? What do people think of the BAR? It hasn't come up in this thread......
Quote from: angler on January 29, 2010, 04:45:15 AM
I was drooling at my local gun store last night, and apparently the assault rifle shortage is over. They had 20 AR's in stock, 2 HK USC's (one used), a bunch of FAL's, one M1A Springfield Scout, and an FN BAR. The BAR was dressed in sort of a tactical fashion with a fluted bull barrel etc. I know they are accurate platforms, but how is the hop up market? What do people think of the BAR? It hasn't come up in this thread......
Which model of BAR? Not a D model I hope.... You mean a 1918 model? If that's the one, then it's .30-06, which is a great but long caliber. Mags are smaller. Nice and HEAVY.
Quote from: ducatiz on January 29, 2010, 04:51:28 AM
Which model of BAR? Not a D model I hope.... You mean a 1918 model? If that's the one, then it's .30-06, which is a great but long caliber. Mags are smaller. Nice and HEAVY.
Its the FNAR in .308
(http://www.fnhusa.com/support/images/dynamic/m/FNM0176mb.png)
Seemed very light, maybe too light for the .308 caliber. Definitely lighter than the FAL or the M1A
I think it looks a bit like a hunting rifle dressed up as a battle rifle, but it has some nice features and has a nice price. Comes pretty tricked out to begin with - rail on receiver, 3 rails on foregrip, pistol grip, adjustable comb (uses inserts), adjustable pull length stock (uses inserts), and fluted bull barrel.
Quote from: angler on January 29, 2010, 05:39:25 AM
Its the FNAR in .308
(http://www.fnhusa.com/support/images/dynamic/m/FNM0176mb.png)
Seemed very light, maybe too light for the .308 caliber. Definitely lighter than the FAL or the M1A
I think it looks a bit like a hunting rifle dressed up as a battle rifle, but it has some nice features and has a nice price. Comes pretty tricked out to begin with - rail on receiver, 3 rails on foregrip, pistol grip, adjustable comb (uses inserts), adjustable pull length stock (uses inserts), and fluted bull barrel.
that's exactly what it is (hunting rifle dressed up). but that's not a bad thing, it has a very nice receiver and is supposed to be pretty awesome. CDNN had them for a while for not bad prices.
i had a small hope you saw an FN-D BAR or a BAR model D. I want one so bad.
Quote from: angler on January 29, 2010, 04:45:15 AM
I was drooling at my local gun store last night, and apparently the assault rifle shortage is over.
Don't play into the media.
An Assault Weapon is a made up media term for semi auto weapons, specifically AK's, AR's, etc.
To be an Assault Weapon or Rifle, it must be select fire, meaning semi-auto and full-auto or some variant of that (two rnd burst, etc).
[thumbsup]
However........That gun pictured is pretty bad ass. I think my next firearm purchase will be a larger cartridge rifle.
The only one I ahve right now is my AR which I wouldn't consider a long range high caliber.
I think my next purchase, outside a nice M1 Garand from WWII, will be a Springfield M1.
+1. No such thing as an assault weapon.
For a rifle to be considered an assault rifle, it must have two things going for it: select fire (as described above, meaning an option for full auto or burst beyond semi-auto) and it must be an intermediate caliber - bigger than a pistol, smaller than an elephant gun or a barrett 50.
That makes for a "broad class" of rifles, but the first option is the limiting option and a person can't just happen upon one of those.
The most correct terminology, as an example, for my "AK's" would be an AK-patterned sporting rifle. I got only semi/safe mode, so its no AK-47, but it has the same general shape and wood stock, etc.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on January 29, 2010, 08:56:47 AM
Don't play into the media.
An Assault Weapon is a made up media term for semi auto weapons, specifically AK's, AR's, etc.
Quote from: ato memphis on January 29, 2010, 09:02:24 AM
+1. No such thing as an assault weapon.
blah, blah, blah, make the beast with two backsing blah. [evil]
You knew exactly what I was talking about, didn't you? So I'm sloppy with the correct terminology. So it plays into the hands of the ban guns crowd (marginally I think). So what. This isn't a lobbying piece and I'm pretty sure everyone in this thread isn't using our posts to take away our guns. I know how this shit works - I consult for the sporting industry.
Let's try this again:
So I was drooling at my local gun store last night, and apparently the AR, FAL, AK, BAR, M1A, USC patterned sporting rifle shortage is over.
Doesn't quite have the same ring to it........ [thumbsup]
haha, true.
I love/hate my NFA stamps
I was told that stamp collectors really dig those NFA stamps. I was told that if I ever transfer any of my NFA weapons to take my paperwork to a stamp collector and make some money off that end of the sale. Anyone know that for a fact? Wonder what one goes for?
Can't imagine they are worth less than $200
+1, six of them. Hmmm, could be $1200 some day! [laugh]
Problem is with ammo so expensive you don't run them as much these days. Sad... Has anyone noticed the ammo expense effecting the price of Class III weapons? I have had my stuff so long that they are becoming the only good investment I have ever made. ;D