Ducati Monster Forum

I was hoping for some guidance/insight. I have chosen to go with an Arrow full system for my ride rather than down the Termi route. At some stage I would like to open up the air box & unleash her a little more. But then there is the dilemma!!! My mechanic tells me that as my bike is euro 2 compliant it won’t lean out too much with the addition of the Arrow system & there will be limited need for ECU mods. Trawling through the threads here there is little relating to the S2r800 with the exception of one ‘OMG the sky will fall in’ comment. The way I look at it I have 3 options:

1.   DP ECU - simple installation, will fix all fuelling issues. I don’t really understand how the ‘1 size fits all’ method works with fuel/ignition mapping though, $2200 is a lot of coin that will probably stop me from doing much else to her (suspension was next), I could probably source one from OS substantially cheaper which is fine by me as local industry need to do better to understand how they can remain competitive in a global market (deep breath).

2.   PCIII – The idea of a custom map is enticing, although I wouldn’t know where to start. I would prefer less wiring – not more, it is cheaper than a DP ECU

3.   Install the system & see what happens

I guess I could also install the pipes, keep the air box closed up & the DB killers in until I can afford the DP ECU.

Comments/thoughts would be awesome

Brett, rather than cough up all the money for an ECU, you can now re flash yours for a fraction of the cost, no add ons needed, the Pro Tune Power map kit will let you re flash the ECU with a map to suit the mods done to your bike, and it stores the stock map should you ever need or want to revert to it for any reason.. and if you sell the bike or get another we can simply load another map into the unit for you to remap the next bike.  the cost of the new maps are around half the price of the initial unit with a map already loaded.

I haven't had a chance to load all the models yet, but we can pretty much do any modern Fuel Injected ducati with the Marelli ecu's..

http://www.carbon-imports.com.au/product_info.php?products_id=101 (http://www.carbon-imports.com.au/product_info.php?products_id=101)

(http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww206/Michael2511/protuneducatilist.jpg)

There's your answer Brett.

He's quick, Ozducati is. You can re-flash as he said or I know there is also a Microtech ECU for around half
the cost of a DP ECU and much greater tuning ability.

me quick? just being helpful Matty..

Of course the Microtec offers a lot more options than both the Pro Tune and the DP ECU..  I fe flashed the ECU on my 1198s, and am just about to do the Multi Strada today with a reflash and an Ex Box fitting :D



http://www.carbon-imports.com.au/product_info.php?products_id=52 (http://www.carbon-imports.com.au/product_info.php?products_id=52)

http://www.carbon-imports.com.au/product_info.php?products_id=123 (http://www.carbon-imports.com.au/product_info.php?products_id=123)

Hey Brett, my understanding is that the fuelling issues (lean running) would only come with the opening of the airbox ... not the exhaust itself - you seem to have that understanding too. I would have thought the PC3 would have been one of the cheaper options to 'add' any fuel you might need to richen the mixture.

I have a full system with a K&N in a standard airbox ... has been trimmed at service and runs within specs (apparently) ... I reckon it runs OK too.

Can I ask what you are trying to achieve? This may very well open a whole can of worms but it might also narrow the thinking a little. I have found that a little sound (quirky as it may be) can be achieved without too much drama. But if it is performance you are after I would put the money towards the suspension upgrade you mentioned.

I am also interested in the 'sky falling in' comment do you have a link?

Fuelling issues will also come with adding an aftermarket airfilter as well, once you add more air there is a need for more fuel, and the standard ecu is rarely capable of providing an ideal fuel mapping with an aftermarket exhaust and airfilter.. the end result is a bike that runs lean, and the side effects of that are that it runs hot, splutters and backfires on decel (which gets annoying) and can be hard to start... the long term effect can be burnt valves, which are a whole lot more costly again...and if you're going to the extent and expense of fitting a full system then ideally it is a little more performance that you're after, then open up the airbox as well, and work out which way you want to add fuel.

PC3's are an add on device, and not a cheap way of doing things, as it ideally needs to be dyno tuned, so you'll end up with a cost of around $12-1400 to fit a PC3 and tune...

What's your defnition of "trimmed".  I bought my S2R with full termis and basically the top half of the airbox lid has been cut away.  It had a Ducati Performance air filter (standard??) but I have now replaced it with a K&N.  This was done by the bike shop the previous owner bought it off.  The bike does not seem to run lean, as the exhaust is on a greyish side, depending on the fuel I put in it.  From what I have seen of receipts the ECU was remapped also.

So are you suggesting that with your options mentioned above there is no need to dyno tune? Brett has already questioned the 'one size fits all' DP ECU ... my understanding was that the true value of any of these systems comes from custom mapping formulated during a tuning session.

Common thinking seems to be that the idiosyncracies of each machine requires a dyno tune anyway ... otherwise why would people that have just bought a DP ECU still pay for dyno time?

So if we are talking about spending thousands (regardless of which path) just to gain a few horsies I'd suggest you'd be better trading in for a larger, more powerful bike. If 'performance' is being taken as literal (not just power output) I maintain you would be better off with suspension upgrades.

But Brett if you are after loud exhaust, loud air intake and a marginal increase in power which may exceed your riding skills or requirements whilst being mis-matched with less than optimal ride dynamics then by all means go for it!

Apologies for my rant ... but it seems that everybody - expert or otherwise have differing views on what is the 'best' system and how one is better than another because it may or may not need to be customised - in the end I see it all as marketting.

Sorry for the confusion I meant the fuelling has been 'trimmed' - the airbox lid is still standard. All done by somebody other than myself.

 .... and going for the record for consecutive obnoxious posts ....

Just to clarify I am not trying to push anybody in any particular direction - just my opinions, take it, leave it or argue I am not fussed ;D

If your bike had a full termi system, then you should already have a DP ECU, which means it will run fine.. you have no worries

Betty, am not trying to argue ,am offering advice and sharing my knowledge on these matters, i won't sell anything i wouldn't use myself.. is a well known and documented fact that more air requires more fuel.. the Pro Tune maps are all developed on a dyno, and can be tweaked to suit individual bikes, as well as there being a number of different tuning levels available for the maps.. it also stores your stock map in the event you want to sell your bike with the stock exhaust, or need warranty work done etc.. the Pro Tune unit is a simple process that takes 20 mins, plug it into the bike and let it do it's stuff..
A PC3 is generally fitted by a Dyno Jet centre and dyno'd when fitted.. you can buy one and download maps, but all it does is act as an add on device, adding more fuel..

when you remap with something like a Pro Tune it changes everything.. disables CO sensors, the ignition curve and fuelling all the way through, is a much more effective (& cost effective) way to fit an aftermarket exhaust.

The ultimate way to go is with a Mictotec, which is a fully tuneable ECU, stores 2 maps, and can have a range of options added to it, just depends on how much you want to spend.. is not all about marketing......is about getting the best bang for your buck.. i have 2 bikes, have had about 5 ducati's previously, and i tune and customise them too, so am not speaking lightly, i have been through many of these options..

It certainly does! I have posted a pic over on show ya rides!!  ;D

But yeah otherwise it runs fine - like I said the only factor that comes in to it is the grade and brand of fuel I feed to my baby.  Love the termis, nice and load.  If I come across spare cash I would like to try the QuatD Exbox - but I guess that would involve remapping again?

Did you dealer tell you to stay away from Shell? if not, you should, i run 98 in my bikes all the time, 95 only if i can't get 98.. BP seems the best, with Caltex after that..

You don't necessarily need to remap if you already have the DP ECU, as it will already have bypassed the CO sensor, and emsissions gear + have a better air/fuel map than stock, if you still felt your were lacking a little, you could try a remap, Quat D have maps made for their systems as well..  I just got a shipment of Ex Boxes in this morning.. :D

Can I ask how this is done?

Or another way to look at it is ... how is it different to a downloaded PC3 map?
Yes I realise that they are two different systems that effect different things.


But mostly about maketing :P


Which brings us back to the original issue. My take on it was that Brett was concerned about creating a lean condition. He seems concerned about identifying if there is a lean condition and then the most 'efficient' way of overcoming any problems ... maybe adding a little fuel via a Dobeck system might meet his concerns?

I am obviously in a mood today ... and I don't mean to get carried off topic ... so will say that the chosen fuel may also effect how the bike runs.

I have also been told to avoid Shell (although views seem to have softened recently). I was originally told to run 95, but have since been referred back to 91. Much of this will depend on the individual bike ... but I believe many with 2 valve monsters use 91 and find it the best for smooth running after trying all the alternatives.

Wow, cheers for the speedy responses - interesting reading :)

I am hoping to achieve a bike that is a little more me with the upgrades. I don't ride particularly hard (anymore) but i certainly appreciate the ability to do so if i choose. My previous bike (VTR) had a full system on it as well as upgraded front springs but i found it fat, heavy & hot around the city. My monster is awesome in comparison (have always wanted a Ducati) - love the look, feel & turn-in, hate the pipes & mid-corner instability. The rest is simple aesthetics...

I am thinking i might put it all together & see how it pans out, although i am keen to hear more about the reflash or microtech Ozducati suggested...

Betty, this is the link to the sky will fall in comment http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=32628.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=32628.0) my favorite was

Cheers

I stay away from Caltex and Shell and run BP 98 (98 Octane recommended for my bike).  I do notice the difference if I run 95, but this seems to be getting off topic.......


Ah another turned to the dark side....

Your mid corner instability is probably down to tyres (or suspension depending on km's and age) - this thread has some insightful reading - http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=10553.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=10553.0)- I found my bike when I first got it had old Bridgestones (probably the originals when first purchased) and whilst ok, I found the front end would push.  Changed tyres and now my chicken strip looks very thin!!  ;D ;D

The maps are developed on dyno, but UNLIKE a PC3 the whole map encompasses ignition , spark and fuel, not just adding more fuel like a PC3.. it's the same concept as upgrading a Computer, it simply reflashes the existing ECU, no need to change the ECU and have to get the TPS reset, and the unit stores the original stock map in case you need to reload it..
Of course we need to tell people about these things so they know what's out there, how would you ever have know about Ducati if they didn't advertise and build a market for themselves?? the fact is this solution is a cost effective and extremely simple alternative to the DP ECU, or a PC3.. and the requires no wiring, no dealer visits, and is easily reversed in 15-20 minutes..

Again, the Dobeck, like the Fatduc 02 Manipulator is a short term solution that still only alters fuel and doesn't give the ideal map..

I understand all that but I am still unsure how this fits in:


 ... again, can I ask how is it done? and what is involved?

Hey guys interesting reading....

I'm in the same boat with my 695....have done exhaust etc & it is running lean & spits & backfires alot more now.

I've been looking at flash kits & there are quite a few available.  To go one step further, I've spoken to a guy in Adelaide who does lots of dynoing & custom tuning on various bikes....he said the ultimate is to map the ECU to suit each individual bike (ie on a dyno) & he is confident that he is able to hack into the ECU & remap it with his software.

He is just in the process of getting cables made up to suit my bike.

I know alot of dyno/performance places are now able to do this on various cars, so I guess its just a matter of time until more & more people are able to do this.  I would check around your local area to see if there are any close bike dyno places & have a chat with them.

Other than the cost which will be much cheaper than buying another ECU, at least you know the mapping will be set up for your bike/fuel/atmospheric conditions etc etc.

Hope this helps & I'll keep you posted when my bike is done [thumbsup]

who's the GUY?? I am in Adelaide and would be interested to know!  [thumbsup]

Same here!

it's true they're an add on device, but cost is a relative thing, depending on the model you can download "canned" maps and install them yourself, in essence achieving the same result your product offers except that the end user can change maps themselves without having to send the installer back to you for uploading of a map to suit the bikes new "recipe". The PCIII can interface with a dynojet dyno and correctly set a custom map quickly and accurately, yes, dyno time costs cash and pushes up the expense but as you said, if you have spent the cash on a full exhaust then you're after performance and a little extra to get it spot on and KNOW the A/F mixture is right is a small extra cost for the best your bike can be as well as the peace of mind. I had a PCIII fitted to a 888 and there is no off the shelf kit so it had to be custom fitted into the loom, and i had it set up on a dyno and got change from a grand, when you consider power commanders have come down in price rather than gone up lately i'm not sure where you get that price from.

paul.

PC3: imported $350
map/dyno (individual cylinders) $330
install (one with a bit of a look can do this!) $80

PC3 price is from my experience (on the 3rd one), map & install prices are from a dynojet expert down here (they are 18 months old)

Neville Lush Racing at Victor Harbor.

If your interested let me know as the more numbers that we have the cheaper it gets.  I'm willing to let him have a crack at hacking into the ECU (which he is confident he can do), his main concern is his cost to get the cable adapter made up.  I've told him if he is successful on my bike, then there would be other Ducati riders who would be keen to get theirs done to, but he said he's heard that before!

He's done previous work on other bikes for me & he knows his stuff

to say the power commander just adds more fuel oversimplifies an excellent product package, and regardless of how many ducatis you may have owned you're not convincing me that you know what you're on about. sure you want to sell your product, sure you use them yourself, but really what sort of a reccomendation is that? you get them for free. You say your protune is "tweakable", what? you can adjust the idle? set the co's ? regardless, it's all guesswork, as betty has said every bike is different, even stock bikes dyno differently so fitting aftermarket stuff is going to require corrective tuning, maybe small adjustments, maybe large ones, but your canned flash is no different to any other, it SHOULD get it in the ballpark. but you don't know do you? and if you do dyno it just to make sure and it's out to buggery what then? is it "tweakable" enough to make it right? at least with a PCIII you CAN set it right.
marketting indeed.

paul

Here is the original questions regarding the ECU and PC3, guidance and insight is what was asked for, i don't understand what you guys are arguing about when all i am explaining is the options that are out there..

I was quoted $12-1400 by Sydney Dyno to supply, install and custom map (each cylinder) for my 1098s last year, and regardless of how you paint it, the PC3 is simply an add on device that controls the fuel .. pure and simple, and i am not simplifying it.. that ALL it is...

If you want the  ultimate tuning device then the best option is a Microtec tuneable ECU, full tuneable, allows control of everything via the software, and even stores 2 swappable maps..
If you want simplified, then the Pro Tune is the way to go.. pure and simple, and the maps are more accurate than the DP ones, we can change the tuneing in the map to give more high end, or allow better mid range, match it with an exhaust, air /fuel mods, whatever.. we will be sponsoring a few well know racers this year with Pro Tune, so i will let the product speak for itself..

and just to dispel another one of your misguided beliefs, i get nothing for free.. i pay for my products, and i work hard to land them here and sell them at a competitive price, so you need to come down off your high horse and learn a few things too.. thanks

 Thanks Brett for posting the original question, judging by the number of veiws in one afternoon there's a lot of interest in the subject. I wanted to improve the sound, look and performance of my S2R800, but being new to modern bikes, it turned out to be more complicated and expensive than I thought. So far I've ordered marving midpipe and shotgun style mufflers, I'll put em on, see how they go,then decide on my next step. love to do something about the airflow, even get rid of the whole box ! . . .  I really appreciate everyones input, I learned a lot from this thread.                  
                                      cheers  Steve      

Ahh yes I have heard of him in the past racing circles I have been in (dirt and road).  There is meant to be another excellent Ducati mechanic down that way - ex Da Vanti racing if the rumours I heard are correct.

Apparently alot of the local bike dealers dont like him....they want to sell their performance ECU's etc, & he has been quite successful in remapping ECU's for various makes & models.....& hopefully Ducati's soon ;D

sorry, cost price then. and i think you will find that EVERYBODY here works hard for what they have, and as for being on my high horse, i wasn't, but i am now.
firstly, do you even own a monster? this is ducatimonsterforum, secondly do you pay the board to advertise here? or are you freeloading to sell your wares? thirdly, i wouldn't need to correct you with my so called "misguided beliefs" if you were more accurate about your competitions product instead of just rubbishing something you can't compete with equally.
you have a business flogging bike stuff, big deal, there's lots of $2 fly by night business' out there, just cause you post something on a forum doesn't make it gospel, and frankly, you don't credit members here with the intelligence they deserve. i may be one of the few questioning your sales pitch but there are plenty of very savvy guys and girls here so get used to your dribble being questioned, especially seeing as you are not "speaking lightly".
now i'll climb off my high horse.
paul.

Paul, i don't own a monster, BUT, i do pay money to be a sponsor here, and become a sponsor at the suggestion of a few of the members here, as our business focus's mainly on Ducati's and high quality predominately Italian made products, and they thought the members would benefit from products and services.

I have not rubbished anything, only explained exactly how each works and what the pitfalls are, i have not attacked your person, only asked you to come down off your high horse, yet you call me a $2 fly by night business.. which is extremely offensive, am sure you would not like being labelled the same in whatever you do??

Finally, as far as crediting other members with the intelligence they deserve, i have not attacked anyone intelligence, or their credibility.. you might try doing the same.

I have no wish to continue this debate, and apologise to Brett and others if i have offended anyone. If anyone has any further questions about our products discussed, please PM me or send me an email.

Ozducati,

I am not trying to argue (honestly despite what it may seem) but I would like to offer a little context.

Firstly we have never had a local sponsor so I think it is all a bit foreign to us in Ozmo-land. In the past whenever somebody has offered advice or recommendations it because of the personal experiences they have had and there is no economic benefit in sharing that informatin or making those recommendations. So when somebody new comes along (such as yourself) peddling their wares (regardless of the motives, intentions or relative soundness of the advice) you may just have to expect a little cynicism.

Our old home (the other board) turned to shit overnight when advertising took over ... most members jumped ship due to the meddling of the new owners in the pursuit of the mighty dollar. The community voted with their feet. I am not saying that is what has happened here but we may be a little sensitive and we may all need to find the right balance.

If you are looking for a bit of genuine feedback I'll offer some below but you may have to realise that some people will always speak there mind and others will quietly absorb all the information and make up their own mind ... but generally people will always be a bit cynical of somebody trying to sell something ... its a sign of the times unfortunately not necessarily a reflection of you or your business specifically.

As for the examples, these are my personal observations of a couple of recent threads:

. Caz posted a thread specifically asking about a source for Rizoma rearsets. The first response (from you) was suggesting he look at a product you sell with abosolutely no reference to the question he asked (instant cynicism from the casual observer). Guessing that adjustability was something Caz was after (as the Rizoma rearsets are known for this) I asked the question about the rearsets you were selling ... and adjustability was the only thing I specifically mentioned. You then posted a lengthy reply about the quality of the product how you met this guy and that guy and did not respond to the question I asked which may have put your product on an even playing field with the product originally sought. All I was seeing was marketing unfortunately.

. Similar things have happened in this thread. Again you were first off the line promoting one of your products and something which the original poster had not mentioned ... he was looking at three options. Of course there is nothing wrong with offering alternatives but it certainly didn't come across as a balanced response when the two cheapest options he was considering were not even mentioned. It was stated that your offer was a better alternative to the most expensive one ... and this is probably when people have started to ask aome questions. You started off saying how the unit was tweakable and could be tuned to an individual bike but insisting it was superior to other options because it didn't require dyno tuning. My repeated query of this specific point kept going unanswered ... and the cynicism kept growing.

. You have stated that you have not rubbished other products but that really comes down to an individuals viewpoint. It would seem that you have not given them full credit and overstated their price (called by a couple of members) may not be rubbishing but it is certainly not balanced

. One other thing worth realising is that people have probably not heard of the Pro-tune setup. If you remember what I said earlier about the 'word of mouth' recommendations - a new product being promoted by a commercial entity should, and I would expect to, come under a whole heap of scrutiny ... especially something that is playing with the electronics and fuel management of our bikes. Anybody that remembers the debacle that was the Rapid Bike modules will know where I am coming from (fried ECUs, lost mapping data, etc) and that product was also sold as the best thing since sliced bread, offers so much more than the PCs, etc, etc ... a lot of people were bady hurt over that one.

I will close off by saying I ws genuinely interested in the product but that seems to have become a side issue now and thanks for mentionng the FatDuc ... one that I had forgotten about, but has often been mentioned around here (or even its cheaper copy) as the 'best bang for buck'.

Apologies if that became a little off topic, but it is related and may add a different perspective to all that came before it.

you reckon it's a bit hot in here right now?

mate, you should see the arguments in the famous Ducati Monster Blonde vs Brunette vs Redhead thread.....legendary.





now, I'm not a moderator....but people...settle down! we are all trying to help, no need to call into account other peoples characteristics and such.

and...Paul, you need to go lightly on the 'do you even own a monster' stuff....this is a public forum not a private club and their are people on who ride other things, don't ride anything yet or previously had a monster and that kind of comment is a bit out of line....we'd still want you around if you sold the monster and kept the 888  [thumbsup]

(bloody hell, now I'm sitting on my HIGH horse!!!)

interesting little piece of knowledge (from the manufactorers) they actually make a PC3 for the s2r800....which means it works with the stock ECU and doesn't have limitations.

the PC3 for the SSS generation of Monsters got strange....most people needed the DP ECU to allow the piggy-backing computer to alter A/F levels otherwise it was above a certain RPM range (5250 for the s4r is an example ) and some systems couldn't get them to work well.

For example you can't use a PC3 for a stock s2r1000....add the dp ecu (expensive!) and you can from my readings (will be able to confirm this with first hand within weeks)

Spider, from my readings and what you are saying above ... I think sometimes the optimal solution was a DP ECU and a PC3 ... neither was quite there on their own ... and obviously dyno time to get it all just right.

That was when the Nemesis (I think it was) was being touted as THE all in solution. Of course all my (limited) knowledge is anecdotal from picking up bits and pieces of what I have read ... still don't actually understand any of it.

Perhaps Ozducati's products ARE the answer to all of your dreams.

Guys n Gals, as a bike owner myself and having had a good number of Ducati's, i have had a lot of experience in tuning bikes.. and probably like a lot of you, not always wanted to toe the "company line" and just simply buy Termignoni off the shelf with a DP ECU.. even though a lot of the time it is a simple and easy solution.. I have been through every option discussed in this thread.. (including a "Rapid" module and dyno tuning) i have done  a lot of research on exhaust and fuelling over the years, and although i may be seen as simply "peddling my wares" but there is a reason I sell the products i do..
When i set out to start this business, i went after certain products that were of particularly high quality, or were designed to be a cost effective solution yet were still of quality that i would install on my bike, as i am sure most you share the same passion/obsessions..  I also spent a week in Milan at EICMA meeting with suppliers and potential suppliers, trying to find the latest and best products to bring to Australia, and we have invested a substantial sum of money in this business and bringing stock in as well.. I introduced myself in the intro thread as a new forum sponsor, and also offered members here discounts, which is still on offer... If you have any further questions on this subject, or any other products please PM or email me and i will answer your questions.

so in future i will be mindful as to how i offer advice, and will keep my product peddling to a minimum..

That price is about right, installed one on my S2R 800 (2006) took about an hour to install (but I'm an experienced wire jerker)
Had it dynotuned and it's a whole new bike.
(BTW I Can email anyone my map if they want, mine is set up for open airbox, stock exhaust with cored mufflers.)

   

    I was looking at one of these Dobeck Power Card $269 US

   http://www.desmotimes.com/ (http://www.desmotimes.com/)

  I need to get the bike checked  first not to sure what ecu is in it.
  But i think the dp ecu was swaped.
 Not after more power, but tuned within reasonable parameters for an open air box and  slip on termis.

   

i might as well slide in some non sponsered sideways promotion here.

my report on s2r800 with mods like this.  start reading about half way thru for std ecu with exhaust and air filter mods - http://www.bikeboy.org/s2rcateliminator.html (http://www.bikeboy.org/s2rcateliminator.html)

i don't believe that the air filter has more effect on mixture than mufflers, certainly not on 800 anyway.

this one has some info on arrow exhaust only - http://www.bikeboy.org/s2rmonsterarrow.html (http://www.bikeboy.org/s2rmonsterarrow.html)

about the only advanatge the dobeck has is simplicity, which means less money to tune.  pc3 will give a very good result when tuned well, emphasis there on the tuner really.  dp ecu again depends on how well they did it.  most late dp stuff is pretty good, some early dp stuff was crap.  but there's no dp ecu maps for s2r monster with full headers, just udders and slip ons.

the s2r800 is open loop, so no need for a dp ecu to then tune over.  bikes that are closed loop - s2r1000, etc, need an open loop ecu for the pc3 to work as desired, otherwise they will self tune back at lower rpm and throttle via the lambda sensor feedback.  fatduc can help overcome that, no experience with how stable it is over long time frames, etc.

no experience with pro tune.  would like to know how it is "tweaked" and how much access there is to what changes have been made.

Well said Spider.

We are self moderated here peoples and throwing comments like the ones in this thread around are very un-becoming.
I know Ozducati personally and he was one of the first people I went to when my bike issues came about.

I won't say any more as Spider has covered it well.

Back to helping each other please.

if i sold my monster i would have at least owned one, i don't begrudge anyone being here, worth remembering though that this public forum is supposed to be a place where people who share a similar interest, that being an interest in ducati monsters can exchange ideas, socialise and generally help each other with minor/major problems etc. sure there are people here who used to own one and others who are working towards buying their dream bike, there's others who lurk and occasionally ask info when for example they're looking to buy one, all very welcome, happy to assist anyway i can just as nearly everyone in the ozmonster community is, there's a wealth of experience here to plunder. BUT, call me cynical, i probably am, it shits me to tears when a business signs up as a member or sponsor even and does little except plug what he sells then that's just self serving. this is all just my opinion and in the big scheme of things counts for naught, but misinformation about products that are competition shows either a lack of professionalism or a lack of understanding, quoting overinflated prices willynilly is a good example, and i don't think, sponsor or not, business should masquerade as members purely to turn a profit.

There are exceptions, take Brad for example, he's not a sponsor, but contributes far more in the way of knowledge, experience and offers real world hands on tips and how to's, not to mention his performance pages. All done while he was an employee, putting in the extra hours recording information for his records and pages, helping out here and other forums with the kind of experienced help that normally cost's per hour. Since he's started his own shop i'm sure his following has grown to the point he is far too busy to be posting here, but he still contributes, he is a highly valued member and i for one want to say thanks. yes, we've had our differences but his help and experience has always been accurate, clear, and non ambiguous, am i rambling yet? oh well, where was i? oh yes, takes more than being here five minutes, a couple of fancy new bikes and a forum discount to convince me of your credentials.

paul.
p.s, If my condescending tone from my high horse offends anyone i apologise, but normally when the waft of bullshit is too heavy to handle in a shop i leave, i like it here, i like the members i associate with and like god botherers and spammers who knock on my door or fill my e-mail with promises and half truths i for one could do without a sales pitch where i come to relax, socialise and spend some of my free time.

slightly off topic, but still sort of related.

I'm keen to ditch the airbox and Breatherbox from my 620 and go with pod filters, really just for aesthetics - I love the uncluttered look of an aircooled naked engine fitted with pod filters.

Do I need to get a PC3 sort the fuel/air balance?, Is there even a PC3 available for a 620?

Of course you are entitled to your opinion but as I said you have no clue who Ozducati is or his background
be that in bikes or experience. Sure you may see him as peddling his wares but I know he has gone out of his way
to be a sponsor of our Ozmonsters board in particular and as soon as he's come along and offered advice and his alternatives
to fixing a problem you seem to want to run him out of town cause he doesn't own a Monster and is trying to grow a new business that is offering everyone who signs up deals on pricing, how many new businesses do that.

Everyone has there own opinions but I think all the information is very valid and no-ones products have been trashed
the PCIII does exactly as stated by everyone.

Anyways I'll say no more.

there is a PCIII available for 03 to 07 620ie. depending on what exhaust you have you may get a canned map to suit with pods,  As has been covered here to death, a custom map set up on a dyno is the best way to get it spot on.

paul

nope, don't know him personally, never dealt with him either, and you're right, i want to "run him out of town" because he doesn't own a monster?? uhhuh, yeah. betty is a lot more diplomatic than i am and has hit the nail on the head pretty much but offering a deal on pricing doesn't mean much, i'm sure he's still doing very well thank you, which is no ones business but his, and unless i have the only working internet connection right now, price is a minor issue. I have no axe to grind but i haven't seen any reason to change my view, oh, and i have nothing to gain rowing anyone elses boat either.

Well comment like that Paul saying you want to run someone out of town just prove your character!

You can take you internet connection and shop wherever you want but saying things like that just prove your
shallow minded narrow view of the world. 

update on my quoted prices:

fit: $90
basic tune: $330 (single map)
advanced tune: $390 (individual cylinders done)
dyno'd before and after.

so $480.....and buy the sounds of it they are being brought in for less than $400 these days.

I'm booked in!!!

sar⋅casm  [sahr-kaz-uhm]  Show IPA
See images of sarcasm
–noun
1.   harsh or bitter derision or irony.
2.   a sharply ironical taunt; sneering or cutting remark: a review full of sarcasms.
Origin:
1570–80; < LL sarcasmus < Gk sarkasmós, deriv. of sarkázein to rend (flesh), sneer; see sarco-

Synonyms:
1. sardonicism, bitterness, ridicule. See irony 1 . 2. jeer.
Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2010.
Cite This Source | Link To sarcasm


oh dear, i'm shallow minded and i have a narrow view of the world. OUCH! that really hurts matty, do you even take the time to read a post or just glance through it? i got the above from a thing called a dictionary.
and yes, that was another example of sarcasm, should i get elmo to explain the word of the day?

holy smokes! :o i've got my dictionary out, now i have to get my abacus out too!
lets see $480 to dyno tune it, and http://www.cheapbikeparts.com.au/ (http://www.cheapbikeparts.com.au/) are selling them here in oz for $529, that's umm.............$1009 and that's without even looking at e-bay or shopping around, a far cry from $1200 to $1400 isn't it? :-\

paul.
oh, matty, that's sarcasm too. [thumbsup]
make the beast with two backs this shit, i'm going for a ride [moto]

back on track people!!!!

stay focused....help others....talk about products....discuss our experiences  :)

no sledging  [evil]

why doesn't everyone go away and read some of Brad's pages and then breathe deep.

we can start a thread entitled 'Is Ozducati the devil incarnate?' later on (this is a joke, please don't start that thread as I know him from the other ducati site and have seen his character proven with humour and generosity).

I'll get some graphs next week and put them up over the difference the tune makes in power....and have been getting very consistent tank milage for a while now so will be interested in that too.

then maybe I'll just have to get DP cams as a scientific research project, hey Matty!

Loony, enough mate, i said i was quoted that last year ...

Matty doesn't deserve to be attacked by the likes of you because he is vouching for me.. how about you share your expert credentials with us now?

Again, you need to go back and read my posts, as I have not rubbished any products or any members here..


Thanks Spider, some may some i am the devil incarnate...

awesome thread!*

It's an S2R800**, what are we arguing here, like about 3 horsepower difference?   8)

* Not actually an awesome thread. Where is the love? Jukie? Where?
** I have one and love it, I'm allowed to give 'em shite

here you go Craigo

 :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*

so just who the make the beast with two backs do you think you are to tell me enough? it's wannabe door to door sales people like you getting in product plugs about quatD's being in stock microtec, pro-tune,etc. non of which was asked by the original poster by the way while not actually offering anything constructive. i have re read your posts and funnily enough in four seperate posts you have said the PCIII is an add on device that "just adds fuel" again, an oversimplification to try and sell what you have to offer. THE PCIII IS NOT A BUCKET.
Just because you're either too busy/dumb/lazy to shop around doesn't mean your one quote is the going rate, remember what i said about your word NOT being gospel?
The likes of me? who are the likes of me? people who disagree with you? matty called me names because he couldn't read an inference (it's a vocabulary, go get one) in my post, i had to show him what sarcasm means so he can follow along, if matty wants to be your knight in shining armour so be it, it's your love in.
you may not have directly rubbished anyone but expecting people to swallow your dribble is just as insulting. where is your reply to almost everyones question on how you tweak the thing? or are you too busy defending your "reputation" from "the likes of me"?
my expert credentials? never claimed to have any, unlike yourself who "doesn't speak lightly" but i assure you, my job requires a little more skill than using a telephone and making change, i've had a few ducatis too and i've been down the road of efi modification as well, and i like to know what i'm talking about when deciding how to modify my toys.
you, the devil incarnate? don't flatter yourself matey!

by the way,
nice web site, some good gear there, and your pricing seems good, especially as there's no need to worry about freight and possible duty.
sooner or later people will have a look and find what they need/want, stop trying so hard and being pushy with what you sell and i can see it working out well for you.


paul.

jeebus guys, it's just teh interwebz!

You know, debate and discussion are good things, but can we all try to keep it civil and respectful.
As is often the case, good discussion can be tarnished by simple mis-interpretation and the like.

People who have been 'round these parts know that I was the local moderator in the old DMF. I'm really happy and proud of the fact that our community is self moderated, and it would be good to keep it that way.

Ozducati, as you become more acquainted with our community, you'll see that we are a pretty tight knit bunch, and welcome new members with open arms. Anyone who does a search on other ducati forums will see that Oz is a valued member of other forums, it seems to me that given time there's a good chance that he will do the same here. I'm sure Oz has more appreciation of our community after this thread!

Loony, well we've known each other for a while now, and you can always be counted to speak your mind, and not pull punches (and I know you won't mind me saying that!) That is both admirable and sometimes frustrating, as it can lead to mis-interpretation. But one things for sure, we all know where you stand. btw, I tend to agree with your last post, not sure why it didn't come sooner! btw, I only read the thread once, and i didn't get the inference / sarcasm the first time.... others milage may vary!

Betty, that's the most opinionated and direct I've seen you ever - and did you finish with the usual "i don't know what I'm talking about" disclaimer? You know what, you actually do know a thing or two about ducs! Perhaps not by direct experience, but certainly by DML/DMF osmosis!

Matty, I know you know Oz better than most 'round here, but you did get on the attack bandwagon as well, which, in my opinion, didn't really add any value to the thread, only added fuel to the fire. Most people know we're good mates, so I think I know that was not the intention..

Anyone feeling left out, send me a PM, I'll add you to the above!

Anyways, back to the  [moto] talk and less  >:( would be a good thing! Just one persons opinion..

Nick

PS, Spider, you're a self professed attention whore, so I left you out as a wind up!  [thumbsup]

yes Goldie what about the LOVE i try to give out, nobody wanted it oohhh well :'(

Sorry Jukie, you're absolutely right, there's always plenty of LOVE coming from you're neck of the woods, well done!

Oh it was there I am just trying to be a little more subtle ... don't worry I clarified my lack of knowledge via PM.

Time to change my sig line ... I think that will make it a little easier.

Well all I know is that you're one person who I can ask "I'm sure I read about blah blah blah on the forum but can't remember the details" and you'll come up with goods..

Gee Goldie you think that opinionated, try living with him bloody hell [roll]

well, on the forum anyways!

HEY....I resemble that remark!

 [thumbsup]

now excuse me whilst I go get my wheels painted.......gold

 ;D

 ;D

aw shit that was fun , ah the good old days  [clap]

as promised....4% increase, but this is done over a fairly modded bike (termi, header, filter, DP ECU) that had previously been adjusted by Brad....so turns out there wasn't much to smooth out!

however the individual cyclinders weren't aligned, one was rich the other lean...

and I'll have some states on fuel economy within 3 weeks too.

(http://i584.photobucket.com/albums/ss284/Spider_photo_lab/ducmonster.jpg)

thanks for the update spider.
so the blue line is a before and the red an after mod?

excuse my dumb question........

yep!

blue is the initial run, as you can see the bike has a very smooth throttle response already and I knew that, so an increase in efficiency is all that is achieved by precisely altering fueling amounts.

the results over a 'stock' bike would be more dramatic, as stated the bike has a wide selection of mods already.

and it would need to be re-done if I had engine work!

I was quite surprised at how little power was there though....it feels a lot more! (but you shouldn't compare dyno vs dyno, scientifically each bike should be done on the same dyno and if not the same brand from what I have read - and differnt brands of dyno deliver different measures)

i have a mate with a carbed 900SS, it's a 96' i think, he had his dynoed and came away with 68hp, his bottom lip was quivering like someone stole his lollipop! rode very, very nicely thanks very much though, made oodles of low down grunt, but he wasn't happy with his big bad SS being a weakling. so after adding FCR41's, opened up collectors for his staintunes, K&N filter, ST2 cams dialled in and dyna coils he now has 92 rwhp after a full service. awesome? yep, i love riding it, he's now too scared to...........
all down to mods? doubt it, it needed a good service before his first dyno run and after the mods the guy who fitted all the hot bits dynoed it, different dyno, different operator. I did suggest he take it back to the first dyno and operator to get a fairer comparison but was told to piss off funnily enough.


paul.

someone told YOU to piss off, this I find a hard pill to swallow  ;D

good story!

yeah, completely agree, and I had the m1000 fitted with a PC3 the week before she went....imagine what her results would have been! so really the only thing I have to adjust is my ego.....same bike that I love, just not a very big number.

I think it's the same dyno (not sure if they have changed it) that Ita got his 125 rwhp for the S4r, so that's 50% more! Never rode his but ridden Dos's S4Rt and it doesn't feel like 50%....more like 10%!!!!

Having said that it was hard to keep her under 80kph on the way home

It's not like a 2V, you need to get the tacho needle over 6000, then you "may" notice a difference  ;D

yep, that's it mate...it's cause I only got your bike up to 6500rpm. now go have pleasant dreams in sleepy ni-ni land buddy boy.

I remember....I kept yours under 6 and under 50kph when I rode it  [evil]