It's my bike and my engine, so I don't want to pay anyone to do anything. I think I can remove the cylinders, replace the studs, fit new pistons, paint the covers, and put it all together. What will happen when I turn the key is the question, haha. All degreased and nice n' clean..here we go.
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g234/247prophet/cleanengine_zps43e186cc.jpg)
[popcorn]
;D
Good luck...it ain't rocket science. Go slow...pay attention to o-rings (take pics)...and ask questions before you get out the big hammer. ;)
Hey DP; maybe I shouldn't be asking you since you're a professional painter and this would disgust ya; is there an easy spray can solution for the covers and fins? I'm going to polish the block but I want the covers and fins to be black. I used self etching primer and single stage automotive paint for my 750 and (I think) they came out great. Really don't want to get too fancy with this part.
I like the process you used on the 750. ;)
I don't do spray cans because they aren't very solvent resistant.
That said lots of people use them and are happy. The temps that the parts reach don't require super high temp materials.
Regular BBQ stuff should work fine if you can find the gloss you want.
Don't buy any engine parts until you get it open and see what's inside.
22 years and who knows what's gone on.....
Quote from: Speeddog on March 28, 2013, 11:28:19 AM
Don't buy any engine parts until you get it open and see what's inside.
22 years and who knows what's gone on.....
I agree. I also really wanna hear it crank...I have my old coils and a battery....is that a dumb idea?
Also, the circle stamp is 96 and it has a dry clutch. So it's not a 1991 like I originally thought
A couple of years ago I did this same project to my '92 SS. Like DP says, it ain't rocket science and pay attention to where the small bits are. I got a PDF of the manual that was invaluable. I wound up with 160 mains (Factory Pro #'s) and the timing fully retarded and I can run 93 pump gas without knocking. That's not ideal but it's working. You will want to check your squish, if it's too loose that can help promote knock as well. I haven't put on the Ignitech unit yet (going to) but that won't give you any more adjustment than is built into the timing already.
[popcorn] indeed
Quote from: Rudemouthsky on March 28, 2013, 12:42:48 PM
I agree. I also really wanna hear it crank...I have my old coils and a battery....is that a dumb idea?
How are you going to hold it down?
all 900 motors have dry clutches.
i've checked the squish on a couple of sets of je and it's pretty good, plus the 2v motors have a taper at the edge of the piston and more on the chamber, so any contact would be on the very outer mm or so of the piston anyway.
when you lift the heads keep the cylinders down, then when you lift the cylinders have someone standing by with a vacuum cleaner to suck up the debris. usually the studs will have lots of rust in the studs/holes that will fall off and down into the cases, lh vertical in particular.
Was there oil in the engine? If so, any nail like alu shavings in there?
Those are a sign of the loose crank plug some mentioned.
You can check f looseness w the crank in right position and a pointy instrument.You don't have to split cases to check and knowing it is ok is good f yuor sleep.
Editing reply w Jellybean 4.2.1 is a PITA..
And I'll add another [popcorn]
I've got the heads off. Wanted to post a pic of shiny aluminum but this stuff is weird, its like a sand cast I don't think it'll polish?
n/m..everything's gonna be black. :)
Hey guys;
are these the good studs? they sure look like it to me...
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g234/247prophet/studs_zps2b0d1057.jpg)
Also-since there's no head gasket here where the cylinder head meets the jug, what does everyone recommend putting here? RTV?
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g234/247prophet/cylhead_zpsf695ab8d.jpg)
Some pics of paint work for your scrutiny are next...
"aluminum" colored engine paint for the case, matte black for the covers...what do ya think?
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g234/247prophet/casepaint_zpsc11f6095.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g234/247prophet/case2_zpsa639693f.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g234/247prophet/case3_zps059ed578.jpg)
All the fins on the jugs and cylinders are getting black as well.
I realize this isn't a professional paint job, but I'm happy with it, and I wouldn't be offended if you critiqued it.
To my untrained eye, this piston doesn't look bad? very little carbon on it either. Lots of hairline scratches, but no obvious "gouges". Thoughts?
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g234/247prophet/Piston_zps5ab28cd4.jpg)
Reasons I've decided not to use high comps: several Ducati guys who I respect don't particularly recommend them..I don't want reliability issues with this engine..don't want to be chained to high octane fuel...and most of all, I KNOW I'll be wanting to swap in a 1000 or 1100DS motor in within the next 2 years.
If you think this piston looks like junk, I can look for a low mileage used pair?
Lap the head/cylinder mating surfaces, nothing else besides that necessary.
Piston looks alright.
Be very careful with the oil rings, they're *quite* fragile.
I'd measure the piston and then decide.
paint will look great from 5 feet (probably even 2), and ask anyone who looks closer and critiques why they think their opinion is of any importance to you. or tell them to just make the beast with two backs off.
studs look ok, make sure they're magnetic.
looks like the oil rings have lost their ridges, not uncommon on these motors. might be worth putting rings in it, even though they are pricey. ian gowanloch at italspaes in aust has genuine ones fairly cheap.
i wouldn't call the je unreliable, i'd just say you need to do a few things typical of higher comp. but the fuel issue is guiding you most it seems, which is very valid.
on engines that show the cylinder and head face has some unevenness (you can see it in the marks when you lift the heads, prior to cleaning anything) i use a thin bead of wurth engine sealer.
Something else just dawned on me as I'm sitting here at work with my ss engine at home.
My 96 SS engine had 10mm bolts from what I remember reading here. My 01' frame has 12mm holes.
Am I going to need to source the 10mm mounting bolts?
Or can the SS engine be made to accommodate the 12mm bolts I already have?
I can't imagine a safe way to use 10mm bolts on a frame that is already drilled to 12mm..
thanks
Engine paint looks good IMO, [popcorn]
If you buy the Nichols engine mounting studs in 10mm they have machined for me before some 10 to 12mm adapters for free. Don't know if they'd do it again though...
That may be the easiest way to shim down the frame hole to 10mm.
Alternately, I have drilled an engine case to 12mm from 10mm. It wasn't easy though...
I've discovered in my searches that others have just used washers. Hmm.
Will any of the 10mm motor mount bolts from 90's Ducati engines work? such as the 916, 996, 748, etc.
If you prep the cylinders (soda blast) and then paint with a bake-on ceramic type paint, you can get good results, but most will run over time due to solvent (gas).
There are several brake caliper paints and they are usually better resisting solvents.
Also you can look at firearm coatings, like DuraCoat, which is specifically designed to resist heat and solvents. I have painted fins using that and it's held up well. Lots of colors too.
Check out these 2 different sets of bolts...I'm curious.
2002 bolts from a 998...what is that bolt with the wide sleeve on the nut? it almost seems as if the bolt is 10mm but that sleeve is for a 12mm hole?
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g234/247prophet/bolt1_zpsd31da4f2.jpg)
This is from a 95. Totally different bolt.
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g234/247prophet/bolt2_zps37807c66.jpg)
Quote from: Rudemouthsky on April 12, 2013, 06:52:00 PM
Check out these 2 different sets of bolts...I'm curious.
2002 bolts from a 998...what is that bolt with the wide sleeve on the nut? it almost seems as if the bolt is 10mm but that sleeve is for a 12mm hole?
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g234/247prophet/bolt1_zpsd31da4f2.jpg)
This is from a 95. Totally different bolt.
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g234/247prophet/bolt2_zps37807c66.jpg)
That 'shoulder' on the nut looks bigger than 12mm
Quote from: ducpainter on April 12, 2013, 07:04:50 PM
That 'shoulder' on the nut looks bigger than 12mm
on which pair? The bottom set?
Quote from: Rudemouthsky on April 12, 2013, 07:07:58 PM
on which pair? The bottom set?
Sorry...
the 998 nut...the top.
I don't think just using washers is a good idea. A machined sleeve for the frame holes would be better IMO.
Quote from: ducpainter on April 12, 2013, 07:16:39 PM
Sorry...
the 998 nut...the top.
I don't think just using washers is a good idea. A machined sleeve for the frame holes would be better IMO.
Yeah. I also do not want to drill out the cases. Any idea who could machine such a sleeve?
Quote from: Rudemouthsky on April 12, 2013, 07:22:29 PM
Yeah. I also do not want to drill out the cases. Any idea who could machine such a sleeve?
pm Monsterlover. He's a sponsor and lathe work is what his business is all about.
Thanks. I PM'ed him.
Really bummed that my 750 belt covers won't swap over. I'd just painted them an they look like 2 monstrous metal penises. The ones on the SS are plastic junk.
I thnk you CAN get them to swap over, but don't hold me to this.
I saw someone had done a diagonal slash-cut at the center of the belt covers, and then spaced them out... yes the covers are techincally open at that point...
looked pretty trick too.
can't remember if he did it to fit smaller covers on a bigger motor, or if he just did it for aesthetics.
maybe someone else knows....
-C
The cut was in a semi-S shape and it was for that exact reason: Can't fit the 750 covers onto a 900 b/c the 900 has taller cylinder heads.
Guys' name is Gil. He's (mostly) off the board now.
Ok...lots of distractions in my life as of late. Almost ready...
Here is the engine when I first uncrated it;
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/1991-DUCATI-900SS-ENGINE-MOTOR-GEARBOX-STARTER-CLUTCH-AND-MORE-/00/s/MTMzNlgxNjAw/z/jVMAAOxy3lFRCYqF/$(KGrHqR,!pQFD8qB!CEcBRCYqEq!pQ~~60_57.JPG)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/1991-DUCATI-900SS-ENGINE-MOTOR-GEARBOX-STARTER-CLUTCH-AND-MORE-/00/s/MTM1MlgxNjAw/z/T~oAAOxyY7FRCYqJ/$(KGrHqR,!qwFDk,9JtziBRCYqJfwsw~~60_57.JPG)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/1991-DUCATI-900SS-ENGINE-MOTOR-GEARBOX-STARTER-CLUTCH-AND-MORE-/00/s/MTE3OVgxNjAw/z/LQsAAMXQJWZRCYqP/$(KGrHqF,!rcFDyg7BcqUBRCYqPSbdw~~60_57.JPG)
Here it is now:
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g234/247prophet/engine1_zps8c880f3f.jpg~original)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g234/247prophet/engine2_zpsd0becd9f.jpg~original)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g234/247prophet/engine3_zpsc057a6e8.jpg~original)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g234/247prophet/engine4_zpsb840331a.jpg~original)
That looks amazing!
Great job [clap]
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! [thumbsup]
Thank you! I honestly never thought I'd even have the nerve to get this far. People on this tech forum have been so awesome about answering my dumb questions and so many answers are already contained within the archives of this site, its just great. Only thing that sucks is the rest of my bike looks so tired compared to this engine. Every cruddy nut and bolt is going to be an eyesore when this is in.
Duuuude!!!! WoooooW [drool] nice work!
Ok so the big day is tomorrow, I have my talented friend at my disposal from dawn till dusk. I have a few questions ahead of time and will be photographing throughout and documenting all day tomorrow...hopefully won't need to stop to post here, but if you could keep an eye on this thread tomorrow in case I get stuck I'd really appreciate it.
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g234/247prophet/engineready_zps692ad4d8.jpg~original)
First off, the 2 hoses coming from the carbs disintegrated when I went to detach them. Leaving nothing but 1 spring and the 2 plastic boxes. What's the deal with these? can I scrap them completely when I mount the FCR's? or will I need to route new hoses somewhere else? I see nothing on my new FCR carbs that appears to accomadate them, I have no idea what purpose they serve, and I'm hoping I can ditch them completely.
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g234/247prophet/bustedvacline_zpsf1cf4f46.jpg~original)
Here's my old ignitor boxes. My Ignitech appears to have 2 each identical male/female connections.
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g234/247prophet/ignitors_zpsbed1caab.jpg~original)
Hook it up, find a safe place to secure it, and it'll work just like that? the stock Ducati/Kokusan map is pre-installed.
My last question pertains to the crankcase breather. Should I save the plumbing and vent the crankcase back into the airbox as it is now, or leave the K&N setup currently on the 900 motor? I kind of dig the idea of hooking up pods and building a battery box at some point at some point to show off the sexy FCR's a lil' more.
thanks so much for your help. One thing I never found when I first joined this forum was a detailed, picture filled write up of this mod, and I hope to enshrine that here. I think noob M750 owners everywhere will be very interested in it.
You'll love how the FCRs clean up a bunch of redundant hoses like that. FCRs dont have or need them. Just a fuel line and an overflow hose. [thumbsup]
Ignitech is plug and play. You need to remap for hi comp pistons. Some adjust maps for smoothness or easier starting, but the canned map is an improvement on a stock motor by all accounts. Mine is in the battery box next to a small case battery (Lithium), but some AGM batteries leave enough room. Use thin foam to insulate vibration. You must run resistor spark plugs to protect the unit.
Good luck.
Quote from: koko64 on May 13, 2013, 03:18:31 PM
You'll love how the FCRs clean up a bunch of redundant hoses like that. FCRs dont have or need them. Just a fuel line and an overflow hose. [thumbsup]
Ooooh so I can chuck them in the same box as those ridiculous turn signals..chopped tail..beer tray..side panels..airbox lid...etc. Woohoo! [thumbsup]
"Left side"
Ignitech 2-wire white plug (blue and brown wires) connects to red/white trigger wire.
White plug with white wire to black/brown/red on bike harness.
"Right side"
2-wire black plug (blue and yellow wires) goes to black/yellow trigger wires.
3-wire black plug to red/gray/black on bike harness.
Thanks Speeddog!
So here's some news: 1996 900ss inlet manifolds are the exact same size as 2001 m750 inlet manifolds.
I'm completely stuck. The 10mm bolts I ordered from a 90s SS are too short. Threaded rods are currently holding the engine in place until I can figure out a solution. Apparently pre 2001 Ducatis have different item numbers for each motor mount bolt. The lengths of these bolts are not the same they are too short. All of the homework I did preparing did not warn me of this. I'm stuck with either going to a Fastenal or some other kind of industrial fastener place to find a suitable bolt, getting raped on the Nichols bolts, or drilling out the cases. This pretty much fukn blows.
I'll let everyone on this board kick me square in the balls before I give someone $200 for 2 fukging bolts.
Quote from: Buck Naked on May 14, 2013, 03:18:01 PM
I'll let everyone on this board kick me square in the balls before I give someone $200 for 2 fukging bolts.
Who has the honor of delivering the 1st kick? ;D
Quote from: Real Recognize Real on May 14, 2013, 04:30:40 PM
Who has the honor of delivering the 1st kick? ;D
Deliver me 2 10mm titanium bolts and you can deliver a swift kick to the balls with em.
I'm drilling these cases in the morning. If someone here can recommend what kind of bit to use and advice on the process that would be awesome.
Quote from: Buck Naked on May 14, 2013, 12:53:47 PM
So here's some news: 1996 900ss inlet manifolds are the exact same size as 2001 m750 inlet manifolds.
yes, but the 900 have a bend to keep the carbs in the same place.
Quote from: Buck Naked on May 14, 2013, 06:51:58 PM
Deliver me 2 10mm titanium bolts and you can deliver a swift kick to the balls with em.
I'm drilling these cases in the morning. If someone here can recommend what kind of bit to use and advice on the process that would be awesome.
buy a really long 12mm bit, it'll be easy. probably about $200 for a good one.
Quote from: Buck Naked on May 14, 2013, 02:44:01 PM
I'm completely stuck. The 10mm bolts I ordered from a 90s SS are too short. Threaded rods are currently holding the engine in place until I can figure out a solution. Apparently pre 2001 Ducatis have different item numbers for each motor mount bolt. The lengths of these bolts are not the same they are too short. All of the homework I did preparing did not warn me of this. I'm stuck with either going to a Fastenal or some other kind of industrial fastener place to find a suitable bolt, getting raped on the Nichols bolts, or drilling out the cases. This pretty much fukn blows.
How about some grade 8 all thread and a couple nuts? 10mm is just a little bigger than 3/8...
Brad: you do think that's a good idea? Seems like the jury is out on that but if Brad Black says no problem with drilling out the cases... then that's the last word as far as I'm concerned. $200 drill bit? Whha...
Monsterlover: threaded rods?
2 threaded rods holding my motor...nfw... really? No...
Its what holds the engine in my 950 supermoto r and it puts out a few more ponies than an air cooled 2v ducati engine.
I wouldn't have suggested it if it was possibly going to kill you.
Quote from: Monsterlover on May 14, 2013, 07:48:01 PM
Its what holds the engine in my 950 supermoto r and it puts out a few more ponies than an air cooled 2v ducati engine.
I wouldn't have suggested it if it was possibly going to kill you.
I've seen your posts, Monsterlover and I can tell you're not an assclown. But I'm sure you can understand my trepidation when it comes to something like this. I don't want to spend every second I'm on the highway imagining the outcome of that engine dropping between my wheels.
Notes so far: both intake manifolds had to be removed to drop the engine. I suppose it could be done by only removing the rear one, but I don't see why anyone would bother. Removing the kickstand was also worth the time. The engine was remarkably easy to remove.
The manifolds are identical...I'm willing to bet on it. I also mocked up my exhaust...it's gonna fit...I'd bet on that also.
2 people and a floor jack was NOT a fun way to get the new engine in. Some kind of cherry picker, or maybe ratchet straps connected to something on the ceiling...anything but how we did it. It sucked and my knuckles are busted up big time, but it's in. A third person to manipulate the swingarm and bike frame would have made it a cynch. The only way I could see doing it by yourself would be to remove the rear tire, swingarm, and complete front end and dropping the frame on top. But then again I'm stoopid.
if someone could chime in today about my bolt issue, what I should do, whether or not drilling the cases is a good idea, etc today that would be tremendous and I'd gladly buy you a beer or ten.
TPO have beautiful titanium engine bolts for $150. They make exquisite parts and would be worth it in your situation. What are the oem ones worth?
Quote from: Buck Naked on May 15, 2013, 05:24:21 AM
if someone could chime in today about my bolt issue, what I should do, whether or not drilling the cases is a good idea, etc today that would be tremendous and I'd gladly buy you a beer or ten.
do not drill the case
using a threaded rod of suitable metal is sufficient. Once the engine is locked in place, the frame will keep the rod from flexing significantly.
Not drilling the cases, using threaded rods, or paying ridiculous $ for bolts.
I'm sure you guys are right but I just don't like the thought of anything other than a bolt made for this job. I was able to find them at Pinwall by ordering 2 sets and using the longer of the pair. The difference where the hole in the frame is, I found a spacer at Lowes that fills the gap perfectly.
Quote from: Buck Naked on May 15, 2013, 09:53:54 AM
The difference where the hole in the frame is, I found a spacer at Lowes that fills the gap perfectly.
Won't use all-thread but bought something for a Ducati at Lowes ?
Grade 8 bolts, all-thread, nuts, whatever, is way better than the grade 5 stuff the factory put out. It has higher tensile strength, which means it's way stronger.
Quote from: GRUBBY on May 16, 2013, 05:07:56 AM
Won't use all-thread but bought something for a Ducati at Lowes ?
Grade 8 bolts, all-thread, nuts, whatever, is way better than the grade 5 stuff the factory put out. It has higher tensile strength, which means it's way stronger.
Grade 8 is not always the best choice even though it's stronger.
If grade 5 didn't work there would be Duc motors laying on the ground everywhere. ;D
Quote from: GRUBBY on May 16, 2013, 05:07:56 AM
Won't use all-thread but bought something for a Ducati at Lowes ?
Grade 8 bolts, all-thread, nuts, whatever, is way better than the grade 5 stuff the factory put out. It has higher tensile strength, which means it's way stronger.
I still would have had to fill the gap in the frame *somehow*. Do you have a better idea? I used Ducati engine mounting bolts to mount my engine. They cost $10 and they were made to mount a Ducati engine. Please explain why that's so obtuse of me. And is there something wrong with the grade 8 all-thread Lowes sells? If I'd used it, I'd be using; "something from Lowes on my Ducati", no?
I would really like to know why these spacers are a horrible idea, and I'll pull them out and find a machine shop. They're probably not high grade steel but they tapped into the 12mm hole on the bikes frame, and the mounting bolt fills the inside diameter perfectly. So what I effectively have is a steel rod at whatever grade Ducati uses with around 2mm of the grade 2 or whatever it is "sandwiched" around it. I pretty much said at the beginning of this thread that my hands are about as useful as limp dicks when it comes to turning wrenches. The only time I deferred from any of your suggestions was the all thread, and that's only because I don't think Ducati engineers are stupid either.
The all thread at Lowes probably isn't grade 8. You generally have to go to a fastener house for something specific like that. I don't think their stuff is even grade 5. I can't remember what the next step down from 5 is. 3 maybe?
In any case, it still would have worked ;)
Quote from: Monsterlover on May 16, 2013, 06:42:09 AM
The all thread at Lowes probably isn't grade 8. You generally have to go to a fastener house for something specific like that. I don't think their stuff is even grade 5. I can't remember what the next step down from 5 is. 3 maybe?
In any case, it still would have worked ;)
Grade 5 is SAE.
Metric designation are grades 5.8, 8.8, 10.9, 12.9 etc
Grade 5 SAE is equivalent to Grade 8.8 metric.
Unless you guys are trying to say metric grade 5.8 which would not be used anywhere on a Ducati. Even on the 80s bikes, they used 8.8 on the cosmetic bits and 10.9 on the structural stuff.
I was talking about some 3/8-16 all thread, sae
Quote from: Monsterlover on May 16, 2013, 07:25:14 AM
I was talking about some 3/8-16 all thread, sae
aha..
Quote from: Buck Naked on May 16, 2013, 06:08:24 AM
I still would have had to fill the gap in the frame *somehow*. Do you have a better idea? I used Ducati engine mounting bolts to mount my engine. They cost $10 and they were made to mount a Ducati engine. Please explain why that's so obtuse of me. And is there something wrong with the grade 8 all-thread Lowes sells? If I'd used it, I'd be using; "something from Lowes on my Ducati", no?
I would really like to know why these spacers are a horrible idea, and I'll pull them out and find a machine shop. They're probably not high grade steel but they tapped into the 12mm hole on the bikes frame, and the mounting bolt fills the inside diameter perfectly. So what I effectively have is a steel rod at whatever grade Ducati uses with around 2mm of the grade 2 or whatever it is "sandwiched" around it. I pretty much said at the beginning of this thread that my hands are about as useful as limp dicks when it comes to turning wrenches. The only time I deferred from any of your suggestions was the all thread, and that's only because I don't think Ducati engineers are stupid either.
Point taken, my bad.
My first instinct is to use strongest possible on most critical.
Quote from: GRUBBY on May 16, 2013, 11:11:22 AM
Point taken, my bad.
My first instinct is to use strongest possible on most critical.
EXCEPT when an engineer has purposely allowed for certain flexibility in specific situations.
Should anyone be doing this swap in the future and happen upon this thread:
- Consider buying a different bike instead
- Source an M900 engine instead of an SS to avoid fitment annoyances that require scavenging of your old engine
- If you need 10mm bolts to swap an older engine into a newer frame, you must buy 2 sets to get the 2 10"(+/-) bolts you need. Or just use the threaded rods these guys swear by.
- Don't get clever like me and think your old intake manifolds and slave cylinder are going to; "work just fine." Or squirt gas into the carbs and proceed to crank the engine with the ignition wires crossed, while standing by the open headers because you're that anxious to hear your new engine run. Unless you wanna crap your pants.
It sounds like you've got things going just about right ;D [thumbsup]
Quote from: Buck Naked on May 16, 2013, 05:15:21 PM
Should anyone be doing this swap in the future and happen upon this thread:
- Consider buying a different bike instead
- Source an M900 engine instead of an SS to avoid fitment annoyances that require scavenging of your old engine
- If you need 10mm bolts to swap an older engine into a newer frame, you must buy 2 sets to get the 2 10"(+/-) bolts you need. Or just use the threaded rods these guys swear by.
- Don't get clever like me and think your old intake manifolds and slave cylinder are going to; "work just fine." Or squirt gas into the carbs and proceed to crank the engine with the ignition wires crossed, while standing by the open headers because you're that anxious to hear your new engine run. Unless you wanna crap your pants.
World fastest laxative [laugh]
I'm sure most of us here who have done anything similar moto or auto related project have rushe starting and caused some sort of OOPS or another [thumbsup]
chug-chug-chug-chug-BOOM!!!!
So its toast?
Quote from: Monsterlover on May 16, 2013, 07:55:45 PM
So its toast?
Haha, hell no. If it was toast after all that work and $ I'd blow my brains out. I had the ignition wires crossed when I tried to start it, and my nuts were a foot from an open header when it backfired. Everything's fine. And I didn't crap my pants...
Quote from: Buck Naked on May 16, 2013, 08:05:38 PM
Haha, hell no. If it was toast after all that work and $ I'd blow my brains out. I had the ignition wires crossed when I tried to start it, and my nuts were a foot from an open header when it backfired. Everything's fine. And I didn't crap my pants...
BTDT
[thumbsup]
Hey dudes;
My wiring from the rectifier in this engine is a grubby, frayed, electrical taped mess. On top of which I really don't like this plugging in 2/3 wires setup. Any recommendations on where I could get a quality non OEM replacement that would come with a new pigtail? The presence of electrical tape really bothers me as well, it screams asshat hack job and looks like something I'd do which is not good, haha. I wouldn't mind replacing the starter as well. Thanks
btw- I know I'm somewhat of an asshat and I'm going on day 4, somewhere around 25 hours, but I know longer believe this is an afternoons worth of work for anyone, no matter how badass you and your tool collection are.
Also: anyone with FCR's and POD filters, could you please snap some photos of your setup for me? I've already chopped up my airbox out of frustration and abandoned any hope of making it fit otherwise. So PODs it is. I don't think I mind...they look awesome
All I did was swap the engine and now my chain is practically sagging to the floor. Someone please tell me the 2 engine's sprockets are spaced differently so I know I didn't do something drastically wrong. The only adjustment of the swingarm I did was to remove the big main pin and pull it back, then reattach.
thanks for always answering my dumb questions...:P
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=59545.msg1099974#msg1099974 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=59545.msg1099974#msg1099974)
Quote from: Ddan on May 17, 2013, 05:46:48 AM
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=59545.msg1099974#msg1099974 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=59545.msg1099974#msg1099974)
Good stuff. I'm pretty sure even Radio Shack stuff would be better than this.
Find a good electrical supply and get some Molex connectors. I used them when I did my dash and I love them. For waterproofing you can always pack them with dielectric grease.
If you're in L.A. : http://www.allelectronics.com/ (http://www.allelectronics.com/) Awesome electrical shop.
had her running today...like, REALLY running...and....OMFG. Just an ANIMAL. Between the FCR's fukn ROARING when they gulped fuel and air...to the new engine through my RR exhaust...to the clackity clack of the open dry clutch...wow...just...wow. OMFG. wow. Then these came in the mail today to top it off. What a great.fukn.weekend this is gonna be :D
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g234/247prophet/filters_zpsea75d7f6.jpg~original)
Yes :D
Vid
these will give you some length above the carb and mount the pods nicely.
http://www.power-barn.com/servlet/the-735/K%26N-Velocity-Stack-Air/Detail (http://www.power-barn.com/servlet/the-735/K%26N-Velocity-Stack-Air/Detail)
Hey Brad;
is there an advantage to using these over the blue ones?
I forgot you have to hold the damn Android landscape fashion, but you get the idea. I hope my mic picked up the sound properly. Don't mind the zip tied oil cooler and car battery :-\
Ducati engine swap: 900ss into M750 + FCR's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhdYqcDrlYs#)
would have been a disaster if I'd attempted it alone, thanks to my old friend Tom H. Saved my ass multiple times throughout the years.
Fine machine ya got there. I can dig it.
Quote from: GRUBBY on May 17, 2013, 12:56:40 PM
Find a good electrical supply and get some Molex connectors. I used them when I did my dash and I love them. For waterproofing you can always pack them with dielectric grease.
Please don't use molex connectors. They aren't even a little bit sealed and will combust in surprisingly short order. Get proper sealed connectors (metripack are wonderful) and use the correct tool. Google eastern beaver. He has all the gear you need.
The bird chirping sounds nice [thumbsup]
Lol He came buckets
Quote from: Buck Naked on May 17, 2013, 04:02:55 PM
had her running today...like, REALLY running...and....OMFG. Just an ANIMAL. Between the FCR's fukn ROARING when they gulped fuel and air...to the new engine through my RR exhaust...to the clackity clack of the open dry clutch...wow...just...wow. OMFG. wow. Then these came in the mail today to top it off. What a great.fukn.weekend this is gonna be :D
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g234/247prophet/filters_zpsea75d7f6.jpg~original)
Quote from: Buck Naked on May 18, 2013, 03:13:17 AM
Hey Brad;
is there an advantage to using these over the blue ones?
the blue ones don't cover the main air and idle air jets, and they don't have a specific filter mounting section.
Quote from: brad black on May 18, 2013, 04:09:48 PM
the blue ones don't cover the main air and idle air jets, and they don't have a specific filter mounting section.
you don't think I'd need different jets after the pods + velocity stacks, do you? I have the 155
thanks dude
I don't think I've run 155 in any of the fcr fitments I've done so far. finish it and dyno it.
Quote from: brad black on May 18, 2013, 08:57:49 PM
I don't think I've run 155 in any of the fcr fitments I've done so far. finish it and dyno it.
Chris's settings out of the box:
Fuel screw 3/4 turn
Slow Air Screw 1-1/2 turns
Float height 9mm
Main Jet 155
Main Air Jet 200
Slow Jet 60
Needle EMT
Needle Clip 3rd from top
my playing with them:
http://www.bikeboy.org/900SSwithkeihinfcr39and41mmcarbs.html (http://www.bikeboy.org/900SSwithkeihinfcr39and41mmcarbs.html)
Love this thread! Keep the updates coming. [thumbsup]
Quote from: brad black on May 19, 2013, 08:51:31 PM
my playing with them:
http://www.bikeboy.org/900SSwithkeihinfcr39and41mmcarbs.html (http://www.bikeboy.org/900SSwithkeihinfcr39and41mmcarbs.html)
I'm a little confused now. Read your write up, and it seems that with the 41's all you changed was the slow jet. So if you never use the 155 when you fit them on your customers bikes, what do you use?
Engine is all stock, the only mods that effect fuel/air are the airbox delete /pods and the RR exhaust.
thanks again.
Quote from: SDRider on May 19, 2013, 09:05:30 PM
Love this thread! Keep the updates coming. [thumbsup]
Thanks man. I'm really thinking that having this documented for posterity will be helpful for lots of ppl. The baby Monsters (600/620/750) have a frustrating lack of power to lots of people.
I do wish I'd taken more pics along the way but I have a few. After this is done I'm going to go back through the posts and make edits, add notes, and Tom and I will also come up with a bullet list to add.
today I have to address the oil cooler, it's held on by zip tie. The cooler mounts are different and I'm hoping I can swap the 750 mount with no problem.
it's been said that this swap is an afternoons worth of work, but I call BS on that. There are just too many unexpected variables and you need to take your time. Maybe if you've done the swap several times before you could roll through it in a day but even then I doubt it.
Quote from: Buck Naked on May 20, 2013, 04:58:42 AM
I'm a little confused now. Read your write up, and it seems that with the 41's all you changed was the slow jet. So if you never use the 155 when you fit them on your customers bikes, what do you use?
Engine is all stock, the only mods that effect fuel/air are the airbox delete /pods and the RR exhaust.
thanks again.
sorry, thought i'd used some different mains.
Quote from: brad black on May 20, 2013, 07:36:44 AM
sorry, thought i'd used some different mains.
so...sorry if I seem obtuse, but just to confirm; 155 is the main jet you stuck with? looks like you did dyno the 41's with a 152 main, then settled on the 155 as delivered but with a 52 pilot? I can't tell if you have seperate dyno chart of 155 vs 152 on that page. Or if changing the pilot had any benefit other than curing the rich idle.
looks like I'll be fine just leaving them alone, including the slow jet. It gets really cold here.
edit: now I see where you experimented with the different main jets but I can't quite tell how or why you settled on the 155. *shrug*...doesn't matter.
edit #2: looks like there's very little difference between no snorkels and open airbox...also did you use velocity stacks?
thanks and sorry about all the pestering.
yes, 155 mains. I possibly would have gone a bit richer, but the 41 tend to have a fairly rounded air/fuel ratio curve that you have to compromise on.
I found the std 60 pilot jets to be so rich that the bikes would run badly at low speed.
on a bike jetted to work with no airbox lid fitting a lid without snorkles makes very little difference ime. a std carb bike with std jetting will run without snorkles, but not without lid.
Not to thread jack, but say a guy has a 750 with the intention of getting a 900 motor to do the exact same swap. Would it make sense to get 41's and re-jet instead of 39's and it not be enough?
Quote from: GRUBBY on May 22, 2013, 04:10:34 AM
Not to thread jack, but say a guy has a 750 with the intention of getting a 900 motor to do the exact same swap. Would it make sense to get 41's and re-jet instead of 39's and it not be enough?
I actually called Chris Kelly with the exact same question 2 years ago, told him that I had future plans to do this swap. He was so adamant about 39 for 750 and 41-900 that he practically refused to sell them to me. (which I thought was awesome of him). From what I've researched since then, starting with 39's and rejetting them for your 900 is the best way to go if anything. There are some that still insist the 900 gets along with the 39 even more so than the 41. And Brad will correct me if I'm wrong but from reading his write ups, he seems to feel the difference between the 2 for the 900 is *somewhat* negligible, with the 41's having a slight edge. Almost everyone whose opinion I covet seems to agree that the 41's will "overwhelm" the 750.
So...my Monster M750 now has an M900 rear wheel and a Supersport 900 engine...what should I call it since it's not an M750 anymore? Super Monster? Monster SS? hrrrm
Point taken. Thank you. Hard to read his write ups on my phone.
Quote from: GRUBBY on May 22, 2013, 05:35:18 AM
Point taken. Thank you. Hard to read his write ups on my phone.
So what are you gonna go with? why not spend that grand on the engine now, and do the FCR's later instead of the other way around?
The only thing that kinda bums me out is I'll never know what the difference between a 900 with Mikuni's compared to a 900 with the Keihins feels like. Almost makes me wish I'd waited on the FCR's.
i'd fit 39 because they're cheaper and you get a flatter a/f curve with them.
but mainly because i'm a tight arse. not very scientific I know.
You wouldn't think 2mm would make that much of a difference unless you have bathtub heads and serious porting.
Hey Brad...or Koko...or?
so, would these:
http://www.power-barn.com/servlet/the-735/K%26N-Velocity-Stack-Air/Detail#itemadded (http://www.power-barn.com/servlet/the-735/K%26N-Velocity-Stack-Air/Detail#itemadded)
effectively be providing the same benefit as these velocity stacks;
http://motowheels.com/i-7788067-corse-dynamics-high-performance-intake-kit.html (http://motowheels.com/i-7788067-corse-dynamics-high-performance-intake-kit.html) ?
and do you think this will nullify some of the tuning gremlins ppl complain about when going to pods as opposed to an open box?
The open box is not an option, my box is chopped and I love these hardcore looking pods.
Looking at them, I think thats the concept. Worth a try.
Improving airflow with pods by using an internal velocity stack could mitigate some of the losses from not running an airbox. Some pods have quite ragged right angle turns without a nice radius from the filter to the carb mouth, so they may help overcome that. They look like they should.
Just gotta find filters that fit the OD and are the right length to fit under the tank.
Be great if Chris Kelley would put a kit together. A kit like that would sell like hotcakes.