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Author Topic: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates  (Read 620789 times)
Desert Dust
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« Reply #2820 on: May 05, 2014, 07:41:50 PM »

"Second, ethanol can cause materials compatibility issues, which may lead to other component failures."

Duh...... Undecided Undecided And the judge who ruled on the Ducati plastic tank expansion couldn't figure this out Huh? Huh? Huh?

Yes, hind-sight is 20/20, but we saw this problem very clearly.
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« Reply #2821 on: May 06, 2014, 06:56:42 AM »

I'm pretty sure this was settled out of court, which means that a judge didn't rule.
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« Reply #2822 on: May 06, 2014, 06:18:51 PM »

I'm pretty sure this was settled out of court, which means that a judge didn't rule.

Technicality- Arbitrator: "A person chosen to settle the issue between parties engaged in a dispute. See Synonyms at judge."

Yes, different process, but most/ many arbitrators are ex-judges or dare I say .....lawyers?

Nevertheless, lesser minds than judges could see the inherent damages in the tanks when combined with legally marketed fuel in areas where Ducatis were legally marketed. = liability> Ducati.
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« Reply #2823 on: May 08, 2014, 11:53:54 AM »

To be fair to the arbitrator, the EPA just published their conclusions. I'm sure that this case would have gone a very different direction if the EPA would have admitted back then that ethanol basically screws up everything it touches. 20/20 hindsight.
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« Reply #2824 on: May 08, 2014, 07:31:26 PM »

To be fair to the arbitrator, the EPA just published their conclusions. I'm sure that this case would have gone a very different direction if the EPA would have admitted back then that ethanol basically screws up everything it touches. 20/20 hindsight.
My point is we could see the flaws, and any "reasonable" person should have seen the flaws in the materials.

I didn't need the EPA to tell me this was a screwed up deal that should have bee COMPLETELY rectified by Ducati.
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« Reply #2825 on: May 08, 2014, 10:40:11 PM »

A more useless website there never was.  There is 1 gas station within 500 miles of me and it is 30+ miles away.  My bike holds 3.5 gallons of fuel so that means I can ride about 100 miles before the fuel light comes on.  You might as well tell me to ride around with a support team to refill my bike whenever I run low on gas.

My 2012 Monster 1100 has had the tank replaced for expansion issues and there have been 3 revisions of the tank for my bike.  Look up the part number for yourselves.  BTW-I paid $300 out of my pocket to have the replacement tank coated before it ever had our crap fuel inside it.  I remain hopeful that I won't have any problems with it.

I'm totally on board with eliminating ethanol from our fuel.


A couple years ago I found a supplier for pure gas or RECreational  gas as its called in my own town that had been their for ever.  OK so you need to be close to a lake but marina's always have pure gas.  Then I looked further for RECreational gas and found another supplier 10 miles away that services inland dirt racers, quads, and sand buggies.  Think outside the usual and you might find it close.  I "finally" got smart, stopped at a couple stations and got a number for their supplier, called them up and they gave me a list of places right under my nose.  My local John Deere dealer even carries pure gas.  But be ready to pay through the that nose especially at a Marina, but they have the best 97.  I don't know why but the marina gas is hot, noticeably, in temp and torque.   Search until exhausted.
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« Reply #2826 on: May 09, 2014, 04:14:59 AM »

I'm not sure why folks keep saying replacing all the tanks would bankrupt the company. Volkswagon group, the third largest auto manufacturer in the world, can easily absorb a full recall. If they decided to do it, it wouldn't hardly even touch earnings for the parent. Now whether they should or not is another debate.
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« Reply #2827 on: May 09, 2014, 05:49:43 AM »

I'm not sure why folks keep saying replacing all the tanks would bankrupt the company. Volkswagon group, the third largest auto manufacturer in the world, can easily absorb a full recall. If they decided to do it, it wouldn't hardly even touch earnings for the parent. Now whether they should or not is another debate.

If you check the dates of this issue and when Audi bought Ducati you'll see that it didnt happen until after the settlement. 

Also, it's mainly the lawyer who ran the settlement that is to blame for the current situation.  He opted to settle on the current situation (probably because he just wanted to make the quick buck vs the true solution)... at which point it became our fault because we were all given a chance to reject that settlement.  Ducatiz even got all the paperwork together for people on this forum... and only 40 people responded I think.

So at this point we're where we are mainly because our own inaction. Caswell'ing your first expanded tank is basically the same as fixing any other issue with any Ducati.  That being said, I highly suggest doing it yourself... it's only $50 for the epoxy, there are lots of guides on the forum, and you'll know that you actually got the whole tank coated.  After having done it twice myself... I personally can almost 100% asssure anyone that some guy in a shop isnt going to make sure to get 100% coverage with what is a really easy but tedious process.
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« Reply #2828 on: May 09, 2014, 06:01:29 AM »


A couple years ago I found a supplier for pure gas or RECreational  gas as its called in my own town that had been their for ever.  OK so you need to be close to a lake but marina's always have pure gas.  Then I looked further for RECreational gas and found another supplier 10 miles away that services inland dirt racers, quads, and sand buggies.  Think outside the usual and you might find it close.  I "finally" got smart, stopped at a couple stations and got a number for their supplier, called them up and they gave me a list of places right under my nose.  My local John Deere dealer even carries pure gas.  But be ready to pay through the that nose especially at a Marina, but they have the best 97.  I don't know why but the marina gas is hot, noticeably, in temp and torque.   Search until exhausted.

I had my replacement tank coated so it shouldn't be a problem for me anymore.
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« Reply #2829 on: May 09, 2014, 07:23:28 AM »

I'm not sure why folks keep saying replacing all the tanks would bankrupt the company. Volkswagon group, the third largest auto manufacturer in the world, can easily absorb a full recall. If they decided to do it, it wouldn't hardly even touch earnings for the parent. Now whether they should or not is another debate.
You are a bit late to the party! Grin

This is a Catch 22 situation. The "fix" might be PEX rather than PA-6 tanks. The EPA "shed tests" were conducted with PA-6 and apparently the "rest of world" PEX tanks don't pass the static evaporation tests. And it's the EPA which mandates E-10 in many locations.

Depending on the warranty and "fit for purpose" arrangements Ducati has with Acerbis, normally Acerbis "might" be on the hook. It's complicated...  Cool
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« Reply #2830 on: May 09, 2014, 08:48:24 AM »

I'm not sure why folks keep saying replacing all the tanks would bankrupt the company. Volkswagon group, the third largest auto manufacturer in the world, can easily absorb a full recall. If they decided to do it, it wouldn't hardly even touch earnings for the parent. Now whether they should or not is another debate.

You're comparing the third largest auto manufacturer in the world to a company that sells maybe 42,000 motorcycles each year, nearly all of which have plastic fuel tanks?  Ducati lists the price of a fuel tank for my bike at $1,800 (and the tank on my bike isn't even painted).  Assume there is a pretty good markup on that and it costs them 1/4th of that which is $450.  That would cost Ducati approximately $19,000,000 just in materials to recall all the tanks for just 1 years worth of production.
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« Reply #2831 on: May 09, 2014, 11:19:16 AM »

No company is going to be perfect.  Ducati is the pretty girl that can't walk in heels without stumbling.  I still love her.
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« Reply #2832 on: May 10, 2014, 04:25:27 PM »

You're comparing the third largest auto manufacturer in the world to a company that sells maybe 42,000 motorcycles each year, nearly all of which have plastic fuel tanks?  Ducati lists the price of a fuel tank for my bike at $1,800 (and the tank on my bike isn't even painted).  Assume there is a pretty good markup on that and it costs them 1/4th of that which is $450.  That would cost Ducati approximately $19,000,000 just in materials to recall all the tanks for just 1 years worth of production.

No no. I'm not comparing Ducati to Vokswagon. I'm telling you Ducati is owned by Volkswagon via Audi and Lamborghini. No matter when the settlements happened they can easily fix this today though I'm not sure why they need to on my 9yo s2r. I'm just trying to point out that finances are not the problem. Ducati is not a little firm run by capital starved Italians. It's legal, not financial.
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« Reply #2833 on: May 10, 2014, 04:40:31 PM »

No no. I'm not comparing Ducati to Vokswagon. I'm telling you Ducati is owned by Volkswagon via Audi and Lamborghini. No matter when the settlements happened they can easily fix this today though I'm not sure why they need to on my 9yo s2r. I'm just trying to point out that finances are not the problem. Ducati is not a little firm run by capital starved Italians. It's legal, not financial.
We don't do legal here.

This thread is actually useless.

The settlement is history and all the supposed interested parties didn't respond when it mattered.

Get over it.
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« Reply #2834 on: May 10, 2014, 06:44:07 PM »

We don't do legal here.

This thread is actually useless.

The settlement is history and all the supposed interested parties didn't respond when it mattered.

Get over it.

Sorry to offend. I like my bike as is and don't have an axe to grind except I thought some folks may not know who owns ducati. Sorry if I violated subject rules. Later.
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