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Author Topic: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates  (Read 714115 times)
krista
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« Reply #2625 on: December 11, 2012, 03:30:27 PM »

PEX/XLPE actually allows fuel vapor to travel through it. This is why it can't be painted and why it's not CARB legal.

As I wrote above, we are going to fluorinate our MTT tanks upon production. This gives the outer layer of molecules a behaviour more like that of teflon with regard to vapor permissivity. From the research I have done, fluorination improves surface adhesion & will allow for the painting of PEX/XLPE.

- Chris
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« Reply #2626 on: December 11, 2012, 06:27:18 PM »

My second tank is twisting.  And, despite numerous emails to another alloy tank manufacturer I haven't received any replies.

This clusterbleep is making my bike unrideable.  I had wanted to be proactive in replacing the tank with alloy, so I am holding out hop for Iz's tank and heroic effort.
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« Reply #2627 on: December 11, 2012, 08:06:34 PM »

So in reality as most bike manufacturers do ,,,STEEL is still king for fuel tanls ,of the majors  99% of bikes made use it  only Ducati and KTM seem to persist with plastics .
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« Reply #2628 on: December 11, 2012, 08:40:12 PM »

So in reality as most bike manufacturers do ,,,STEEL is still king for fuel tanls ,of the majors  99% of bikes made use it  only Ducati and KTM seem to persist with plastics .
Just out of curiosity, is the underseat tank on a BMW F-Series not plastic? BTW, my 851 had an nice alloy tank.
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« Reply #2629 on: December 12, 2012, 02:19:28 AM »

So in reality as most bike manufacturers do ,,,STEEL is still king for fuel tanls ,of the majors  99% of bikes made use it  only Ducati and KTM seem to persist with plastics .

There are models from many brands using plastic and affected by varying degrees including Aprilla, BMW, KTM, Moto Guzzi, MV Augusta, and yes even Harley Davidson. I give Ducati credit for new designs that enable them to hide the plastic fuel cell, such as the new monsters, pretty clever. But that does not give them a free ride on the remedy they offered for afffected bikes. - Gene
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"I know a few roads"
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« Reply #2630 on: December 12, 2012, 01:12:52 PM »

I don't agree that hiding the problem is clever at all.  For the price of today's bikes they should have a solution IMO
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« Reply #2631 on: December 12, 2012, 01:25:23 PM »

Yeah you could be right. But along with those designs we also got huge increase between service intervals, reduced weight, DTC, ABS. And the price isn't bad. - Gene
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"I know a few roads"
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02' M900 54K+ Miles
04' ST3 58k+miles - Sold
01' Victory Sportcruiser 30K miles, 04' Victory Kingpin - 111K+ miles
09' XR1200 - 15K+ miles
13' Diavel - 13K+ Miles Pay attention and things will be okay
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« Reply #2632 on: December 12, 2012, 02:08:49 PM »

You guys keep forgetting about the costs with steel and alloy. There's a reason people use plastic: it's like 1/10th of the cost to get running. I'll be flatly stunned if anyone mass produces metal tanks for Ducatis. There is zero financial motive. The Big Four Japanese manufacturers sell enough numbers (like 100x Ducati) so the huge costs are amortized among more bikes. The metal tank Ducati made for the original Monster is probably why they kept using it until 2006 (last found on the S4R desmoquattro).

I'm quite amazed that over time, Ducatis have either kept the price the same or reduced. The original owner of the 1992 900SS I owned paid $10,500 for it. In 1991. What did a GSXR go for back then? $6k? The 888s were a bit over $20k.

If the fluorination proves to be the magic bullet for plastic tanks, we'll make another monster tank that mimics the factory tank's looks.
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Krista Kelley ... autist formerly known as chris
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« Reply #2633 on: December 12, 2012, 02:26:27 PM »

Agree and by not spending money on redoing the tanks in metal they added other features, bike was lighter, and the price was kept reasonable. In fact a M1100 EVO is a very competitive bike in the market. - Gene
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"I know a few roads"
92' PASO 907ie
02' M900 54K+ Miles
04' ST3 58k+miles - Sold
01' Victory Sportcruiser 30K miles, 04' Victory Kingpin - 111K+ miles
09' XR1200 - 15K+ miles
13' Diavel - 13K+ Miles Pay attention and things will be okay
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« Reply #2634 on: December 12, 2012, 04:45:21 PM »

In fact a M1100 EVO is a very competitive bike in the market. - Gene

It's ugly too. 

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« Reply #2635 on: December 12, 2012, 06:04:44 PM »

My Duc and my Harley have metal tanks and it's gonna stay that way.  Tongue They may cost more but I'm not buying the argument of incrementally shooting the price of the bike skyward.  Just look at the electronics and how much more time and effort went into that to be added. 
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« Reply #2636 on: December 12, 2012, 06:15:47 PM »

Hey I'm lucky enough to have the only Harley with a plastic tank. I got rid of the S2R but the XR1200 is not going anywhere. I just replaced the S2R1000, mostly my track bike, with another metal tank Duc, a nice find Supersport to be exact. - Gene
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"I know a few roads"
92' PASO 907ie
02' M900 54K+ Miles
04' ST3 58k+miles - Sold
01' Victory Sportcruiser 30K miles, 04' Victory Kingpin - 111K+ miles
09' XR1200 - 15K+ miles
13' Diavel - 13K+ Miles Pay attention and things will be okay
EX-MSF Instructor, EX-President MAD
AMA Charter Life Member, Patriot Guard Rider
Victory Motorcycle Club, Charter Member
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« Reply #2637 on: December 13, 2012, 10:21:31 AM »

Hey I'm lucky enough to have the only Harley with a plastic tank. I got rid of the S2R but the XR1200 is not going anywhere. I just replaced the S2R1000, mostly my track bike, with another metal tank Duc, a nice find Supersport to be exact. - Gene

The V-Rod has a plastic tank too.
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« Reply #2638 on: December 13, 2012, 10:23:28 AM »

The V-Wad has a plastic tank too.

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« Reply #2639 on: December 13, 2012, 10:29:36 AM »

PEX/XLPE actually allows fuel vapor to travel through it. This is why it can't be painted and why it's not CARB legal.

As I wrote above, we are going to fluorinate our MTT tanks upon production. This gives the outer layer of molecules a behaviour more like that of teflon with regard to vapor permissivity. From the research I have done, fluorination improves surface adhesion & will allow for the painting of PEX/XLPE.

- Chris

That's interesting.  EPA SHED testing shows XLPE gas tanks permeate at a lower rate than HDPE tanks.

EPA testing on Marine tanks made of HDPE and XLPE tanks showed XLPE rated lower permeation than all HDPE tanks. 

Plenty of HDPE tanks around on cars and boats. 
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Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the air—these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.
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