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Author Topic: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates  (Read 666528 times)
duccarlos
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« Reply #495 on: April 30, 2010, 11:01:53 AM »

Anyone got any more info on this? My tank's still OK, but I know I can't rely that Ducati will take care of me when it does go bad. I'd like to do something to forestall that...

I just bought a bottle of Startron my my dealer. They basically told me to add a cap worth to the tank if the bike was going to sit for about a week.
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Fergus
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« Reply #496 on: April 30, 2010, 01:19:18 PM »

I just bought a bottle of Startron my my dealer. They basically told me to add a cap worth to the tank if the bike was going to sit for about a week.
And this counteracts the ill effects of the ethanol? Is it in fact ethanol that causes this problem? Is it the ethanol expanding, causing a pressure build-up, or is it a chemical reaction with the plastic tank material?
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ducatiz
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« Reply #497 on: April 30, 2010, 01:29:53 PM »

There is no guarantee that a stabilizer will help

I think a more likely option is coating the tank.  Multi owners report good results with their tanks and caswells
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« Reply #498 on: April 30, 2010, 02:56:59 PM »

I think a more likely option is coating the tank.  Multi owners report good results with their tanks and caswells
Cool, thanks. I might just do that. Here's a link, just in case anyone else is thinking about it.
http://www.caswellplating.com/aids/epoxygas.htm
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ducatiz
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« Reply #499 on: April 30, 2010, 04:20:55 PM »

Cool, thanks. I might just do that. Here's a link, just in case anyone else is thinking about it.
http://www.caswellplating.com/aids/epoxygas.htm

I've spoken with them (Caswell) several times and they are convinced their coating will have no problems with the nylon/PA tank surface.  Lance Caswell said to rough it up first but that their epoxy based coating would stick to anything except PE (polyethylene).  Quite a few plastic tanks on many vehicles are made from HDPE etc but the Ducati tanks on the bikes UP TO the 696/1100 the later style are all nylon/PA.  I don't know what the later style are made of.  If you look on the underside, there will be a marking as to the composition which is present to comply with EU recycling regs (I am not kidding, my 2005 bike has a "recycle" triangle and a marking with "PA6" next to it -- meaning "polyamide 6" the particular nylon compound)

I don't know that the stabilizers will work.  If ethanol is in fact the problem, then it will still penetrate the tank's inner surface (which by the way is NOT coated at all, my new one still had "artifact bubbles" from the rotomolding process.. soft and could be "popped" wth?)

On the other hand, I have been led to believe the US-spec tanks are actually a different compound from Europe and the rest of the world, which is entirely possible as only Canada and Mexico follow US EPA's regs for things like permeation (which is a standard for plastic tanks).  Thus, it could be a defect in the nylon polymer itself which simply is reacting to any solvent (of which there are half a dozen present in US pump gas -- pick your poison:  xylene, toulene, ethylbenzene, etc etc)

My gut feeling (as I have said before) is that Ducati will start coating the tanks with something like Caswell when they go out the door.  It is far cheaper than coming up with a new tank design, whether a new plastic or metal and, quite simply, solves the problem in the cheapest way possible.

I've pushed the DNA people to start testing tank coatings as I think it's probably the best solution for them and for us.  I can't imagine the cost to buy material and coat 10,000 tanks is but a fraction of the cost to replace 10,000 tanks.

That being said, it really comes down to whether or not the coating works and sticks.  If it does and they start doing it on the good tanks, then I consider that a win for everyone.

But I don't think ethanol stabilizers will help too much against the tank problems.  CANT HURT but I don't think they will stop it too much.  

I don't think you need a virgin tank to do the coating either.  Just drain and clean your un-expanded tank and let it sit for a while to air out, then do the prep for the coating (Caswell says to put a handful of nails in the tanks and shake it around  Huh? uhh sure.. )   My gut feeling as an armchair chem eng is that it will work fine.

« Last Edit: April 30, 2010, 04:22:29 PM by ducatiz » Logged

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« Reply #500 on: May 04, 2010, 10:13:25 PM »

Um, I was wondering why the latch was so tricky and controls were not only coming close, but actually touching the tank at full lock on the <7k mile otherwise mint '06 S2R I just picked up.  Why do I feel like Ducati is not going to show me much love as the 2nd owner should this become a bigger problem?  Undecided

Glad I at least know about the issue now.  Definitely signing up.
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ducatiz
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« Reply #501 on: May 05, 2010, 01:52:31 AM »

Um, I was wondering why the latch was so tricky and controls were not only coming close, but actually touching the tank at full lock on the <7k mile otherwise mint '06 S2R I just picked up.  Why do I feel like Ducati is not going to show me much love as the 2nd owner should this become a bigger problem?  Undecided

Glad I at least know about the issue now.  Definitely signing up.

Ducati has been replacing tanks for subsequent owners.  The warranty is transferrable and they have been replacing tanks out of warranty with no questions asked.  The only problem has been dealers.

This isn't to say that Ducati might be working on some guidelines.  I can't be sure, but my feeling is that they believe only SOME tanks expand beyond safe dimensions and that SOME expansion is acceptable.  This is the tack they took with the recent bulletin for the Sport Classics, which advises shimming the tank mounts for expanded tanks which are still under a certain width.


I know someone who has procured an expanded tank and is paying to have a laboratory run tests on it to see why it's expanded.  I don't know if they plan to share their info with me or what.  We will see.

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« Reply #502 on: May 07, 2010, 05:24:32 AM »

Did anyone else's dealer remove the charcoal canister as part of their tank replacement?  My original tank would build up pressure (see above posts), but my new tank - sans canister - does not.  Hmmm.

-Jeff 
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« Reply #503 on: May 07, 2010, 11:00:37 AM »

My new replacement tank less than a year old, it's already pressing againt the ignition swich. Just like the other one did  Cry  And the charcoal canister was removed back in '07   
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« Reply #504 on: May 07, 2010, 11:58:22 AM »

charcoal canister doesnt have anything to do with the swelling of the tanks. Wish it did
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« Reply #505 on: May 07, 2010, 01:19:11 PM »

My bike is an 2006 and I'm the 2nd owner.
Went to my local dealer for their opinion 3 weeks ago after seeing this thread . Was contacted today by the dealer and told my tank replacement was approved and the new tank should arrive in 2 weeks.
Hopefully the same swelling issue will not happen but.....
Duc's are one of a kind and I hope this small issue does not deter people.
If I had a choice, I'd buy another Duc over anything.
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« Reply #506 on: May 11, 2010, 11:59:13 AM »

My dealer said they would not replace my tank since it is not original to the bike. I had a steel tank originally that leaked at the hinge and I effed it up trying to seal it. So I bought a good used plastic tank as a replacement. Swollen all to hell. Angry
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« Reply #507 on: May 11, 2010, 12:15:47 PM »

My dealer said they would not replace my tank since it is not original to the bike. I had a steel tank originally that leaked at the hinge and I effed it up trying to seal it. So I bought a good used plastic tank as a replacement. Swollen all to hell. Angry

Do you still have the metal tank?
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« Reply #508 on: May 11, 2010, 01:01:00 PM »

Yeah the warranty goes by the vin only.  Can't do that
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"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the air—these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.
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« Reply #509 on: May 11, 2010, 02:29:38 PM »

Metal tank is in my parts bin
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