Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates

[rockaduc]

Just had my 2nd replacement tank installed today.  TIme from pics taken at dealer to arrival of new tank: 1 month.   
Time it took me to find the time in my schedule to get to the dealer to have the work done: 2 months 

[Betlog]

Does anyone have a link with the most recent status of the lawsuit. From what I remember, Ducati was applying for a motion to dismiss with the result being determined July 22?

[ducatiz]

They have a continuance to August for the status of the mtd.

Login to the ecF court site isn't free

[hillbillypolack]

Ah.

HERE'S something that's interesting (and more than bit of a double standard).

Ford today announced a recall of their full size trucks due to retaining straps failing and possibly causing the tank to fall away from the vehicle:

"Ford Motor Co. said Monday that it is recalling 1.22 million pickups in the United States and Canada over concerns about fuel tanks dropping and causing fire."

also

"NHTSA said in May it had 243 reports involving the fuel tank dropping below the vehicle and/or dragging on the ground, 95 involved fuel leakage, and nine included reports of sparks from the tank being dragged on the road.

NHTSA had one report of strap failure in which the leaking fuel ignited but self-extinguished. Ford reported another incident in which the leaking fuel ignited and the resultant fire destroyed the vehicle."

So.  The possibility of a fuel related issue brings an automaker to issue a recall, but a deforming motorcycle tank lifting off the frame rails with equal possibility of coming away from the vehicle is not considered recall material?

As I understand it Ducati has not issued a recall to inspect all affected motorcycles.   

Keep in mind this is 243 reports out of 1.2 MILLION vehicles.   

http://www.detnews.com/article/20110801/AUTO01/108010408/1148/auto01/Ford+recalling+1.2M+pickups+for+fire+concerns

[Desert Dust]

This is an interesting comparison, and you have a very valid point.

But Ford seems to be doing the right thing of its own volition. Ducati could choose to do the same.

Think about the negative publicity Toyota received over the sticking throttle linkage. Ford doesn't want the same magnitude of negative publicity.

Would a relatively small motorcycle manufacturer like Ducati receive the same amount of negative publicity as Ford or Toyota? In addition, I haven't heard of any life-threatening accidents caused by Ducati tanks. Yes, the potential  for injury is there, but until it happens, I think we will be stuck with replacement tanks of the same quality. 

[hillbillypolack]

^ agreed.

But in one situation, you're sitting on top of the fuel tank.  In the other situation the tank is outside of your compartment, below and behind you.

Which would be more important to issue a recall?  In the event of a potential failure, which would be more catastrophic?

This has been my main complaint from the beginning; that Ducati has never issued a recall directly to the owners to inform them of any potential risk.  Or at least document it so the models could be brought in for initial inspection as automobile OEMs do.

Ducati, being as small a manufacturer as they are run the risk of this getting out of hand and causing a negative reputation similar to Toyota (as you noted).

[corey]

^ agreed.

But in one situation, you're sitting on top of the fuel tank.  In the other situation the tank is outside of your compartment, below and behind you.

Which would be more important to issue a recall?  In the event of a potential failure, which would be more catastrophic?

This has been my main complaint from the beginning; that Ducati has never issued a recall directly to the owners to inform them of any potential risk.  Or at least document it so the models could be brought in for initial inspection as automobile OEMs do.

Ducati, being as small a manufacturer as they are run the risk of this getting out of hand and causing a negative reputation similar to Toyota (as you noted).

some interesting points here, i happen to agree.
in my lowly opinion, they should have bit the bullet, and cut this issue off before it COULD get out of hand.
i'm of the belief that someone, likely someone not here on the board, is going to die as a result of this... and even then, i doubt ducati will do anything.

[ducatiz]

Ah.

HERE'S something that's interesting (and more than bit of a double standard).

Ford today announced a recall of their full size trucks due to retaining straps failing and possibly causing the tank to fall away from the vehicle:

"Ford Motor Co. said Monday that it is recalling 1.22 million pickups in the United States and Canada over concerns about fuel tanks dropping and causing fire."

also

"NHTSA said in May it had 243 reports involving the fuel tank dropping below the vehicle and/or dragging on the ground, 95 involved fuel leakage, and nine included reports of sparks from the tank being dragged on the road.

NHTSA had one report of strap failure in which the leaking fuel ignited but self-extinguished. Ford reported another incident in which the leaking fuel ignited and the resultant fire destroyed the vehicle."

So.  The possibility of a fuel related issue brings an automaker to issue a recall, but a deforming motorcycle tank lifting off the frame rails with equal possibility of coming away from the vehicle is not considered recall material?

As I understand it Ducati has not issued a recall to inspect all affected motorcycles.   

Keep in mind this is 243 reports out of 1.2 MILLION vehicles.   

http://www.detnews.com/article/20110801/AUTO01/108010408/1148/auto01/Ford+recalling+1.2M+pickups+for+fire+concerns

It's a totally different circumstance, on the facts.

truck with tank separating and falling off

vs

motorcycle with tank expanding and 1 in 10000 (?) leaking.

So far no ones tank has come off and no one has experienced a flameout. 

There was a big flameout on a 999 in Australia, but FWIW it was an injector problem, and that's a metal tank.

So far, luckily, no one has been burned.

[hillbillypolack]

It's a totally different circumstance, on the facts.

truck with tank separating and falling off

vs

motorcycle with tank expanding and 1 in 10000 (?) leaking.

So far no ones tank has come off and no one has experienced a flameout.  

There was a big flameout on a 999 in Australia, but FWIW it was an injector problem, and that's a metal tank.

So far, luckily, no one has been burned.

IMHO, it's only a matter of time before someone A) isn't informed, and B) rides thinking their deformed tank is not an issue.  Leading to C) potential open fuel/flameout.

Per the Ford recall, nobody has been burned in that instance either.  But Ford was proactive enough to inform owners of the vehicles.  The recall goes back to model year 1997.

Ducati may not have any flameouts, but apples-to-apples they should have stepped up and sent out communication to appropriately describe the situation.

If you compare these two issues with fuel tank related issues, it makes Ford look like heroes (which is only what any automaker OEM is responsible for) and Ducati looks shady since they're avoiding and ignoring it.

I'm not implying that Ducati replace EVERY tank, but to have them inspected so an accurate estimation on how the tank was/is deforming on a case-by-case basis.  Not communicating to this end is negligent in my opinion.

[ducatiz]

IMHO, it's only a matter of time before someone A) isn't informed, and B) rides thinking their deformed tank is not an issue.  Leading to C) potential open fuel/flameout.

Per the Ford recall, nobody has been burned in that instance either.  But Ford was proactive enough to inform owners of the vehicles.  The recall goes back to model year 1997.

Ducati may not have any flameouts, but apples-to-apples they should have stepped up and sent out communication to appropriately describe the situation.

If you compare these two issues with fuel tank related issues, it makes Ford look like heroes (which is only what any automaker OEM is responsible for) and Ducati looks shady since they're avoiding and ignoring it.

I'm not implying that Ducati replace EVERY tank, but to have them inspected so an accurate estimation on how the tank was/is deforming on a case-by-case basis.  Not communicating to this end is negligent in my opinion.

I would say the risk in the two circumstances is 100% different.

The risk of a metal gas tank, dragging on the ground is far far more serious than the risk of a tank expanding.

Put it this way...

it will only take one metal Ford tank, dragging on the ground to produce a flameball.

so far, i personally know of 5 people who have had leaky ducati tanks, and none of them have burned.

Put it another way, the risk in the Ford situation is 1:100 whereas the risk in teh Ducati situation is 1:50,000.  if that. 

[hillbillypolack]

Point is that you have a flammable liquid being contained over a high heat source (engine).  If said fuel container does leak (in just the RIGHT way) it is a flame situation.  The fuel pump and seal is right above the top cylinder on my bike.

Just like 'if' the fuel tank drops from a Ford truck and 'if' it creates a spark.

Both are 'possibilities' I agree.  Both need to be communicated to owners regardless of what the statistical probability would be.

[Armor]

The plastic tanks are not leaking.  There are far more leaks on metal tanks.  (My metal tank was leaking)

[OneWheelDrive]

Haven't you guys seen fight club?  

"A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one."

Ducati would never issue a voluntary recall unless there were confirmed cases of injury or death as a result of catastrophic failure.  Have there been any confirmed injuries from expanded tanks?  Hurt feelings because you bought a $14k bike that has wavy paint doesn't count.

[hillbillypolack]

Haven't you guys seen fight club?  

"A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one."

Ducati would never issue a voluntary recall unless there were confirmed cases of injury or death as a result of catastrophic failure.  Have there been any confirmed injuries from expanded tanks?  Hurt feelings because you bought a $14k bike that has wavy paint doesn't count.

I agree with you. 

But. . . . in both cases, there have not been injuries.  Why the double standard for automakers sending out recall notifications, and there were none in Ducati's situation?

[ducatiz]

The plastic tanks are not leaking.  There are far more leaks on metal tanks.  (My metal tank was leaking)

There are far more metal tanks leaking because the design was more numerous -- eleven or twelve years worth of bikes.

The plastic tanks ARE leaking.  I have video of several.  The lawsuit against Ducati involves two different models which leaked.  I have observed two different monsters with leaking and documented multistradas with leaking tanks.

Plastic tanks have only been used since 2004, so that's seven years of tanks involved. 

There will probably be fewer plastic tanks leaking because so many people are getting tanks replaced when the tank is distorting whereas the metal tanks were never replaced.