Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates

[ducatiz]

Thanks!  I'd rather have the tank than the vaseline.

For less hassle, get it into a dealer before the settlement is complete.  Once that happens, the clock will be ticking and the dealers will have to use the rules in the settlement (which pretty much they already do).

[hillbillypolack]

I'm glad you did what you did in this endeavour.  Nobody in any aspect of motorcycling has ever posted as much information and explained both sides of the situation as you have done.  Period.  I just have to say that and tip my hat to you, sir.

However.  Ducati needs to get off their collective a$$es, man up and change the polymer.  If they ran injection molds of tanks with PE3, then shoot them with polypropylene, ABS, Styrene, WHATEVER that will not be affected by ethanol.  Nobody can tell me that Ducati or its suppliers don't have chemical engineers on staff that can't spec plastics that are 1) able to resist ethanol and its long term effects, or 2) that they could propose a cost-effective plastic or polymer that resists ethanol and gets on the good side of its customers.

This, in essence was what I was hoping for.  A company 'doing right' instead of hiding behind litigation, and perpetuating the warping tank syndrome.  Yes, Ducati is replacing tanks that have been affected, and in two years, three years. . . .then what?

This is simply the straw that broke the camel's back for me.  I'm with you on the costs of numerous aftermarket mods that Ducati cannot sell on its OEM bikes due to NHTSA, FMVSS or EPA regulations (yes, I work in the automotive industry and am VERY familiar with fuel systems and other regulations).  That said, I have willfully added over $4k to the initial cost of the bike, often 'guessing' what will work.  DP ECU for one.  Termignoni exhaust for another.  Gearing, clutch slave, etc etc.  Factor in those who spend monies on PC3, dyno time to 'get it right' and you're dropping further down the rabbit hole and for what? 

These bikes should have arrived closer to the specs we seek out with those mods.  A direct comparison is BMW, which I have noted before.  Not any 'cheaper' than Ducati, but you get a bike that works, performs right out of the box.  BMWs generally don't require $5k just to get them to feel right riding through traffic or to feel less 'congested' in their exhausts.  Ride an S1000R back to back with a 1198 and tell me what you feel.

So, okay that's a separate argument.  But now we see that Ducati isn't exactly standing behind its owners or its products despite a negligent (my adjective) spec on their fuel tanks.  They're continuing to replace them with the same stuff.  Really?  Yes, I am being a bit of a diva here, but what are our long term options?  The costs you noted getting a tank Caswell coated isn't close to what we see in my neck of the woods.  More like 2-300 bucks.  Purchase a Beater tank for $2500 in aluminum?  Yeah, adding 25% of the purchase price of my bike in an item that shouldn't be giving me issues just doesn't make sense on my planet.

I could go round and round.  Ducati isn't serious about their existing customer base.  That's clear.  You can drink the Kool-Aid, patch up the shortcomings on your bike with thousands in aftermarket goods, and masturbate over how good they look.  I've done that.  I can't dodge that bullet.  But I can't do that any more.  Ducatis MSRPs keep climbing (look at the MS, SF and Diavel if you need reference) with the expectation of adding many 'extras'.  And I'm no longer going to be guessing and trying to find what works and what doesn't.  I'm simply going to move the Ducatis along, and enjoy riding.

That's what it's all about isn't it?  I'm not a brand-whore.  I don't care to be.  I just like riding more than I do trying to fix a bike that shouldn't be broken in the first place.  And I have a particular German dealership I will be visiting. . . . very soon.

Auf Wiedersehen, Ducati.  There are two philosophies in Italian and German bikes.  Italian bikes have you adapting to them.  Like anything Italian. . . suits, shoes, cars.  German bikes are like the Silent Servant that takes care of things and caters to you, becoming an extension of you.  You fit the bike every time.  Two philosophies.  Two manufacturers.  Just an observation.

I know Ducati had a terrific sales year and good for them.  My leaving won't mean anything to them.  But just as GM had their reputation follow them for decades, I openly wonder if there will be anything similar from this situation.  Growing in NA with its economic pressures will be challenging. . . especially in the demographics that can afford Ducatis.

[AMGnDuc]

Yes.

I don't know if I read that correctly in the settlement.  Most of the dealers have been telling myself (and others) that if you coat the replacement tank, that's the end of the line for you receiving replacement tanks.

So just to be clear, if the terms of this settlement are approved, if I go have my dealer coat my replacement tank and the coating doesn't work, I can still get another tank?

[ducatiz]

I don't know if I read that correctly in the settlement.  Most of the dealers have been telling myself (and others) that if you coat the replacement tank, that's the end of the line for you receiving replacement tanks.

So just to be clear, if the terms of this settlement are approved, if I go have my dealer coat my replacement tank and the coating doesn't work, I can still get another tank?

Since I have been following this for a couple of years, I've been in contact with about a dozen dealers -- not a one has been instructed to look inside the tank.  They will look inside when they remove it that's only after your new tank has been approved and received.

That being said, if you get the tank coated it isn't going to expand.  One of the guys on my list has a MTS that has almost 3 years on the same coated tank.  Nothing.

[NorDog]

First off..

If you expected to get a metal tank out of this, then you haven't been paying attention.  Please don't post here.  There never was any chance of that happening.

[clip]

Few of you are either old enough or have the balls enough to own a bevel Ducati, and I can tell you those bikes were problems and if there were as many law firms trolling for suits as there are now, Ducati would have gone back to making radio tubes.

So, if the prospect of spending $50 or 200 to get your tank coated pisses you off so that you're dumping the brand, fine...

[clip]

Anyhow.

I'm not happy and I'll probably write a nasty letter to the judge, tear it up and then write a polite but stern letter explaining why I don't care for the settlement, the least of which being that the plaintiff attorneys did practically nothing compared to my work on the matter, determining the problem.  Will it make a difference? I don't know, I don't know Judge Fogel.  But it doesn't matter much, I have a coated tank and it's fine and it won't expand.  

It's probably the cheapest mod I did on my bike.

Just for the record, I am old enough and have balls enough to have ridden a bevel Ducati.  Only back in the day I didn’t have enough sense to do so.  Rather in the ‘70s and ‘80s I was riding Harleys.  If I had even SEEN a Ducati back then I would have been all over it.

Also, I have had no notion that I would get a metal tank out of this deal.  I just wish someone would make one I could buy that is a straight swap.  Such a thing does not exist to my knowledge, and I’ve looked.

About the money to have a tank coated – I have no problem spending the money (heck, it would cost a small fraction of buying that non-existent metal tank).  My problem with coating is that, again back in the day, I remember lots of guys coating their metal tanks to guard against rust only to have the crap flake off and clog up the fuel lines.  I really don’t want to see that happen with the tank on my S4RS.  If I pay someone to coat my tank I want them to stand behind the work.  I don’t know who that would be, or where they are.

I’m talking about selling my bike because I don’t have the time to deal with this issue.

Perhaps I need to investigate the coating option a bit more.  I just need to be convinced that it’s a solution to the problem, not something that could make the problem worse.

[ducatiz]

Perhaps I need to investigate the coating option a bit more.  I just need to be convinced that it’s a solution to the problem, not something that could make the problem worse.

When the dust settles a bit, and my contacts at Ducati get back to me, I have the engineering folks at a fairly large chemical firm willing to test their coating to certify it for use with nylon. 

SO far we just have the anecdotal evidence that the common epoxy coatings do work (Caswells for instance).  Caswell has looked at it and says that it adheres well and blocks everything -- they've started listing plastic gas tanks on their website.

However, I'd rather have a manufacturer put it to some real tests.  That may come.

[AMGnDuc]

Since I have been following this for a couple of years, I've been in contact with about a dozen dealers -- not a one has been instructed to look inside the tank.  They will look inside when they remove it that's only after your new tank has been approved and received.

That being said, if you get the tank coated it isn't going to expand.  One of the guys on my list has a MTS that has almost 3 years on the same coated tank.  Nothing.

Well, unfortunately the dealer will be aware of the tank coating because I have to instruct them to coat the replacement before they put fuel in.  That said...

I'm definitely going to with the Caswell coating.  Very tired of dealing with this (I know you are!).  It happened on my Monster and it's started to happen on my 7 month old Streetfighter.  The models are separated by three years, I would've thought this issue would've been solved.  Nope.

Everyone is very appreciative of your hard work on this, myself included.

[Desert Dust]

"Auf Wiedersehen, Ducati.  There are two philosophies in Italian and German bikes.  Italian bikes have you adapting to them.  Like anything Italian. . . suits, shoes, cars.  German bikes are like the Silent Servant that takes care of things and caters to you, becoming an extension of you.  You fit the bike every time.  Two philosophies.  Two manufacturers.  Just an observation."    LOL!!!!   I'll be speaking Deutsch for my next ride as well, but not because of the tank issue. I just turned 57 and I'm gettin' too frail to be hauling ass around on a Monster. With a Beemer, I can cruise and also become a little less involved with the bike's maintenance when I'm not riding it.

I wonder, what tank is Ducati using on the new bikes? My friend is trying to decide between a Multistrada and a Moto Guzzi. If Ducati is still using the same tanks, I will advise against the Duc.

[NorDog]

I have been looking at R1150RTs.  I need a bike I can take on the road with the wife on the back.

[muskrat]

If you expected to get a metal tank out of this, then you haven't been paying attention.  Please don't post here.  There never was any chance of that happening.


So, if the prospect of spending $50 or 200 to get your tank coated pisses you off so that you're dumping the brand, fine, go buy that 'busa and enjoy the ride.  Maybe someday you can go to Japan and meet the robot that made your bike, or any one of the thousands of factory people who stood there wanking to manga while the robot put your 'busa heads on.   I've been to the Ducati factory twice now and I know I met the guys/gals who built my bike -- why?  Because the company only has 1100 people worldwide, and the 100 or so floor people building bikes were the only ones who do it.  

I never expected metal replacement tanks, not that it matters to me any longer since I dumped by S2R.  I'm a firm believer in doing right by the customer.  I have no clue what Ducati has spent on this charade but I'll bet it would have been far cheaper to simply dump their manufacturer and find a replacement that works.  The worst part in all of this will be the people leaving and for a small manufacturer like Ducati that hurts.  It took them roughly 10 years to climb back on top from their previous "BS", how long this time?

And I don't plan on buying a Busa, but I did have my heart set on a brand new Multi first part of 2012.....not anymore.

Lastly, thank you for your personal efforts! 

[slower than...]

Man, you just gotta love the legal system    NOT!

Let's see, the attorneys get $835K from Ducati, and as an owner of an '06, I get zip, nada, zilch.  Already on my third replacement tank from Ducati, and per this settlement, that would likely be my last (because in a month or so, my 5 years are up).  And I already got the new brackets.  

I guess I should be happy knowing everything is good now.    

I sure hope my coating holds up.

[stopintime]

Opening another can of worms:

Ducatiz: if you have heard (or even want to) - what about Europe?

Touring Europe this summer, I see E5 as the usual 95 gas, E10 on many pumps and E15 as the low priced alternative on a few.
I haven't heard of any issues (not saying there aren't any), but I expect the Italian Ducati crowd to burn down the factory if Ducati treats them like DNA seems to be treating US owners.

Comments?

[slower than...]

.......I'm a firm believer in doing right by the customer.  .........The worst part in all of this will be the people leaving and for a small manufacturer like Ducati that hurts.  It took them roughly 10 years to climb back on top from their previous "BS", how long this time?........

Sales are up and climbing.  Ducati doesn't care about us.

I love my Sport Classic but it is a torture rack to ride.  Still, I would never want to sell it.  So I was looking at getting a M796 or a HM796 next month.  I just couldn't decide between the two.  With how this settlement turned out, and with both those bikes having tank problems, I think maybe the choice will be to get an Aprilia Shiver 750, or better still, a Triumph Street Triple R.  Nice job Ducati.

[ducpainter]

Sales are up and climbing.  Ducati doesn't care about us.

I love my Sport Classic but it is a torture rack to ride.  Still, I would never want to sell it.  So I was looking at getting a M796 or a HM796 next month.  I just couldn't decide between the two.  With how this settlement turned out, and with both those bikes having tank problems, I think maybe the choice will be to get an Aprilia Shiver 750, or better still, a Triumph Street Triple R.  Nice job Ducati.

Go ahead...

buy the Ape and see how it works for you...

http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226143

[DRKWNG]

Go ahead...

buy the Ape and see how it works for you...

http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226143

Yea, Aprilia is having the same issues.  I was seriously looking into an RSV4, but decided against it due to the tank issues.  Hell, even MV has gone to the nylon tanks with their current bikes. 

Looks like it's either a Triumph of Kev's 999 for me...