2011 rumors of Changes appear untru

[Veloce-Fino]

I GOTTA get in on this internets cockfight.


The old guys will fight abs "I don't need it I'm pro, experience is better. I'm better at braking without it."

Well guess what, you're wrong. Head to head comparison with identical hardware an ABS equipped bike will ALWAYS out brake a non-abs equivalent.

You can literally GORILLA the SHIT out of the brake lever and not go down. This allows you to take advantage of ALL the braking power your bike has to offer. There is no progressive braking, waiting to feel that point of no return when the front wheel locks, none of that.

Just grab a fistful of brake and try not to superman over the bars.

[mattc7]

You are a little confused, ABS is a safety device like airbags, crumple zones, safety glass etc.. on a car, not a riding aid / improver like launch control, traction control or what ever they are calling it.
ABS is an extremely significant safety device that will prevent many accidents or at least lessen injuries during those times when we are all caught off guard.
 
 

What am I confused about?  I never said it was bad. I never said it wasn't a valuable safety device in street use.  I never said it wouldn't help out.  I'm saying it limits feel for racers.

The previous poster said "every rider".  It's not true.

99% of real world riders in real world conditions, it is true.
I was simply stating that his use of every rider was incorrect.

I also said that the test wasn't done properly.  I never argued the results.  I simply explained that a side-by-side comparison is stupid, if you're trying to only account for 1 particular feature.  You need to get rid of variables for a real scientific test.  There are many variables involved in the posted video.  The results are correct ( and i haven't argued them). The test is flawed.

[sbrguy]

I never argued either of these points, simply stating it won't always benefit everyone, except that on track it can be a hindrance. If it kicks in when not needed, which some systems do on occasion. Also, more weight, and a serious pain to bleed.

Also, explaining the flaw in the studies.

That's all  I'm not saying the findings are wrong, I'm just saying they're improperly done  

i have to agree with him on one point the OP did say "everyone".  

This poster is pointing out that NOT EVERYONE namely professional racers and track racing on a dry day with very good riders, will not benefit from ABS.

This poster is merely pointing out to the OP that his "absolute" assertion that EVERYONE will benefit from ABS is a FALSE statement, because it is.

The OP should have said "practically EVERY street rider will benefit from ABS", which would exclude racing on a closed course or track days.

You guys are arguing semantics here.  The Poster above obviously realizes what he is saying and is basically f-ing with the OP because he doesn't like the "absolute" assertion the OP is saying as if it is factual which ABS has been proven it can be beaten by expert level racers on dry pavement in good conditions.  

at the same time the OP is arguing back because he won't budge at all by saying "ok maybe pros and expert level track racers are better than ABS on a clean track on a dry day in good conditions" because then his EVERYONE statement would be wrong.   

Afterall why doesn't motogp have ABS?  well maybe its a rule thing but you get the idea.

[danaid]

What am I confused about?  I never said it was bad. I never said it wasn't a valuable safety device in street use.  I never said it wouldn't help out.  I'm saying it limits feel for racers.

The previous poster said "every rider".  It's not true.

99% of real world riders in real world conditions, it is true.
I was simply stating that his use of every rider was incorrect.

I also said that the test wasn't done properly.  I never argued the results.  I simply explained that a side-by-side comparison is stupid, if you're trying to only account for 1 particular feature.  You need to get rid of variables for a real scientific test.  There are many variables involved in the posted video.  The results are correct ( and i haven't argued them). The test is flawed.

You are missing the entire point of the video that is ABS lessens the stopping distance and keeps the bike under control when used in a panic braking event vs the same bike without. 
You are confused about ABS being used for the racers, it shouldn't be used for racers, it should be turned off at the track.
ABS is for when all of us, advanced riders or not, are in traffic and that suv pulls out in front of us and we have a split second to brake before we smash into the door panel. Hopefully ABS will allow us to stop or lessen our speed of impact vs. locking up the brakes and loosing control and impacting the vehicle or obstacle.

 

[MadDuck]

I find it kind of funny that some folks get so worked up about traction control and ABS on a Monster.  It's been my experience that while in one sense it might be worthwhile but more on the other hand most riders don't ride hard enough to actually benefit from it. Well, maybe if they are sort of doofusses they might. But otherwise..... ? ? ?

Sorry, I didn't know I'd set off a small s-storm with this post. I'm a bit of a Luddite when it comes to some of this stuff. Yes, the ABS is safer when you actually have to use it. It wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. If it were it's own separate option I don't know that I'd get it. If it came in a package like it does with the BMW S1000rr then I'd get it. But, boy, just wait until you have to fix a problem with it and it's out of warranty .... yadda, yadda, yadda   

[mattc7]

  You are missing the entire point of the video that is ABS lessens the stopping distance and keeps the bike under control when used in a panic braking event vs the same bike without. 
They aren't identical tires, bikes, etc as I mentioned.  I said the conclusion of the video was correct, but the test is flawed. It's a different bike. Different tires, different suspension - and setup.  I AGREE with the video, if you read my comment you would see that.  I think they need to test oranges vs oranges, and not oranges vs tangerine.  ZERO changes to the bike, besides ABS.  The only scientifically decent method of testing it

You are confused about ABS being used for the racers, it shouldn't be used for racers, it should be turned off at the track.
ABS is for when all of us, advanced riders or not, are in traffic and that suv pulls out in front of us and we have a split second to brake before we smash into the door panel. Hopefully ABS will allow us to stop or lessen our speed of impact vs. locking up the brakes and loosing control and impacting the vehicle or obstacle.
This is what I said.  The original statement was all riders.  I explained at the track this is not the case. that is all.


 

My responses are in yellow.  I think you're confused with what I have said, and what you think I am saying

[mattc7]

i have to agree with him on one point the OP did say "everyone".  

This poster is pointing out that NOT EVERYONE namely professional racers and track racing on a dry day with very good riders, will not benefit from ABS.

This poster is merely pointing out to the OP that his "absolute" assertion that EVERYONE will benefit from ABS is a FALSE statement, because it is.

The OP should have said "practically EVERY street rider will benefit from ABS", which would exclude racing on a closed course or track days.

You guys are arguing semantics here.  The Poster above obviously realizes what he is saying and is basically f-ing with the OP because he doesn't like the "absolute" assertion the OP is saying as if it is factual which ABS has been proven it can be beaten by expert level racers on dry pavement in good conditions.  

at the same time the OP is arguing back because he won't budge at all by saying "ok maybe pros and expert level track racers are better than ABS on a clean track on a dry day in good conditions" because then his EVERYONE statement would be wrong.   

Afterall why doesn't motogp have ABS?  well maybe its a rule thing but you get the idea.

This guy gets it!

[ungeheuer]

ABS is not helpful in some places.  

Every rider on the street will benefit from ABS under most riding conditions.

FWIW, I agree with both of these statements.

The "studies" of ABS are, to my knoweldge, not blind studies in the slightest bit.  I won't say they're wrong, I just know the human tendency to prove themselves right.

True.  But think about it:  How could you have "blind" tests on ABS?  Even if everything else was identical.... the moment you hauled on the brakes to locking(or not) point.... the moment ABS began to kick in you can feel it working.  There is no way to conduct a "blind" test on ABS IMO.

The old guys will fight abs "I don't need it I'm pro, experience is better. I'm better at braking without it." Well guess what, you're wrong.

I resemble that remark  .  I'm 51 years old.  I have never owned a motorcycle with ABS.  I have never, ever once needed it.  Yet.  Does that make it of no value?  Not at all.  I have worn a helmet every time I have ever ridden any motorcycle and I've never needed that either.  Yet.  But I understand the potential value of the helmet if things were to get out of control.  Equally, I appreciate the safety potential of ABS.  

Even though I am one of your "old guys"  .

So do I wish my M1100 had  been built with ABS as satndard equipment?  Well yeah.... it just might come in handy one day.  (Would I swap my dry clutch to get it?  Hmm....  probably not  ).

[Veloce-Fino]

I resemble that remark  .  I'm 51 years old.  I have never owned a motorcycle with ABS.  I have never, ever once needed it.  Yet.  Does that make it of no value?  Not at all.  I have worn a helmet every time I have ever ridden any motorcycle and I've never needed that either.  Yet.  But I understand the potential value of the helmet if things were to get out of control.  Equally, I appreciate the safety potential of ABS.  

Even though I am one of your "old guys"  .

So do I wish my M1100 had  been built with ABS as satndard equipment?  Well yeah.... it just might come in handy one day.  (Would I swap my dry clutch to get it?  Hmm....  probably not  ).

No way my dad is 52! .. haha. No wonder you have all the cool shiny and go fast bits on your bike.. you have the time value of money advantage over me. I'm in no rush to get there though.  [moto]

The helmet metaphor should resolve the arguments in this discussion. Makes perfect sense.

I guess you can continue to argue whether or not ABS is necessary in professional racing...

[Greg]

Didn't we go through the same argument when cars were originally fitted with ABS? ABS is mostly useful for day to day use. Rarely do you come to a complete stop when on a track. The only time it would be useful on the track would be going from a very high speed section, like a straight, to a very low speed turn. In this case, it would help you outbrake as long as you use a combo of engine/normal braking. In any other section, it would not be a hindrance or an advantage.

Well if Formula 1 drivers used ABS (when it was allowed) then I have to concur that it was useful for cars on a track.

As for myself, the only new road bike I will buy will be equipped with ABS. I need every advantage I can get on the street.

[duk too]

I never argued either of these points, simply stating it won't always benefit everyone, except that on track it can be a hindrance. If it kicks in when not needed, which some systems do on occasion. Also, more weight, and a serious pain to bleed.

Also, explaining the flaw in the studies.

That's all  I'm not saying the findings are wrong, I'm just saying they're improperly done 

Findings or not. If you are on track and don't want the ABS, you can just toggle it OFF !

[duk too]

I'm 53 and I guess I bought the best Monter 1100 built. (so far)
It is the ABS model 1100s.
All the bling and ABS.
As I said switch it off if you are on track.

ABS works on the street. 

[Greg]

Found this on the web



Note that the two tables at the bottom compare average distance with ABS to the best distance without ABS. In most cases the average ABS beat out the best non ABS, and that's good enough for this rider who at 48, no longer has the reactions of a 20 year old  [moto]

[motoboy]

sorry if I did not see this in a post yet.

how much will the ABS add to the weight ?

[Greg]

sorry if I did not see this in a post yet.

how much will the ABS add to the weight ?

It should only add a pound or two at the most