anybody sick fo the Crest?

[Zaster]

DucMouse,
I went up today and felt pretty rusty...and I had rides where I thought I was totally out of sink.
There are a lot of steps in quick succession if one wants to ride the Crest at a good pace and if you are
out of rhythm then it feels ugly.
Revisit all the steps you go through when riding Crest type roads and make sure you do all of them correctly.

[Cloner]

....its likes i lost my mojo

I don't know for sure, Mouse, but I think everyone who rides longer than a few months goes through this at least once to some degree....some more severely than others.  I'll relate a personal story and a bit of advice, both of which you may feel free to disregard at your leisure.

The last time I wadded a bike hard was in 2003 at Barber Motorsports Park near Birmingham, AL in turn two.  It's a 180° right hander than starts in the trough of a little gully, then goes straight up the hill as it begins to turn right and apexes on the side of that hill and begins going back down into the trough.  I had ridden most of a day and was clipping along pretty well when I felt the front begin to slide a little more than I was comfortable with just past the apex of the turn.  Experience kicked in and told me that if the front was moving that I had overloaded the front wheel (easy to do with my frame, if you can imagine that ) and that I should increase my throttle to compensate.  As I wicked the throttle the slide became a tuck and off I went.

The accident absolutely killed my Supersport and left me hurting pretty badly, too.  I analyzed the accident and decided that what had happened was that the front had actually gone light at the apex when the hill "crested", and that my natural response to unload the overstressed front actually further lightened an already light wheel and precipitated the crash.  Since then I've had a few other acquaintances do the same thing in the same turn and they reached the same conclusion.....it's a spot that's contrary to normal motorcycling experience.

I bring this up because it was one of those experiences that REALLY shook my confidence.  I had done what 20 years of riding experience had dictated and I still ended up on my head.  I thought, I rationalized, I talked to friends, and I very nearly stopped riding because the outright collapse of my confidence took away my enjoyment of motorcycling for a period of about two years.  I avoided riding with my normal group because I knew they'd ride faster than I was comfortable riding (all of us were active or former racers and our street rides got pretty aggressive sometimes away from traffic).  I started going to classes (and eventually earned my MBA, so I guess the accident didn't come to naught) because I knew it would give me an excuse to stay out of the garage and off of the bike.

Eventually, I began to miss the adrenaline rush that comes with the perfect apex, and I eased back into riding again.  I visited the track at every opportunity to reinforce good habits, and to get that reinforcement in the safest environment I could.  I'd like to say some sort of bravery or something led me back to riding, but truth is I realized I love it and that was enough to put me back on track!

Now for the advice.  If you KNOW you want to ride, and you want to ride better, there are two simple ways to do that.  First, ride more.   There is no substitute for saddle time on a bike when it comes to developing skills and confidence.  Second, get good instruction.  I can tell you from experience that there are some things you SHOULD do on a motorcycle that you will never discover by yourself.  Body posotion is difficult to analyze when you're riding....it's easier if someone who knows what's happening tells you what you're doing poorly.  Countersteering is counterintuitive, and you do it whether you realize it or not, but it is important to understand it in critical situations where judgement takes over from muscle memory.  Braking is as much art and feel as it is brake pads and rotors, so having someone teach you how to do it properly is a good idea.  Also, having someone who rides well analyze your lines and show you where you're choosing them poorly and where you're choosing them well helps your riding technique greatly.  There are lots of things a good instructor can show you, and I can't mention all of them here.

I don't know who teaches classes out here, but it'd be worth a little investigation to find out.  I'm almost sure you could get decent instruction at Thunderbird in Phoenix, for instance, but I don't know what's offered in Albuquerque or Demming.  Roadracing World does an annual Track Day issue that shows who's teaching at what tracks, so you could look at that.  Also, there are some fixed schools if you want classes from a specific instructor.  For instance, Kevin Schwantz (former 500cc GP Champion....we call that series MotoGP now) teaches classes at Barber.  Others who teach lots of classes are Reg Pridmore, Jason Pridmore, Keith Code, Ed Bargy, Doug Pollen, and a host of others.  Also, many plain old trackdays offer individual or group instruction to a lesser degree, and are much less expensive.  I haven't been on track out here, but back east you could get into nearly any track day you wanted for a couple of hundred dollars.....and sometimes for much less at smaller tracks like Talledega Grand Prix or Carolina Motorsports Park.

So I guess what I'm saying is "get out there and ride".  Ride YOUR pace.  Hold your line.

Another 2 cents,

Cloner

[Goduc]

In my opinion you just need to relax and get some good time in up there.  Just solid quality time with the mountain.  It has been a while since we have been riding that road and to be fair it still isn't in perfect condition.  I know you want to be back in the same spot you were but that isn't being realistic.  Why do you think that all the pro athletes have spring training and things like that?  Plus when I am riding up there even if I am feeling good if I see a large spot of sand or rock in the road or whatever the case may be, it makes me a little apprehensive and then I notice it is easier to make a mistake and shake my confidence.  Give it some time girl....we have all summer!!! [moto]

[bonfy]

II bring this up because it was one of those experiences that REALLY shook my confidence.  I had done what 20 years of riding experience had dictated and I still ended up on my head.  I thought, I rationalized, I talked to friends, and I very nearly stopped riding because the outright collapse of my confidence took away my enjoyment of motorcycling for a period of about two years.  I avoided riding with my normal group because I knew they'd ride faster than I was comfortable riding (all of us were active or former racers and our street rides got pretty aggressive sometimes away from traffic).  I started going to classes (and eventually earned my MBA, so I guess the accident didn't come to naught) because I knew it would give me an excuse to stay out of the garage and off of the bike.

Man, I really relate to this part of Cloner's post.  My two big off's happened in traffic and it still is with me every time I'm on my bike, in traffic or not.  I, also, had a mini-wad on the Crest which DucMouse and HP were present for.  All these within a year and a half.  It hasn't occurred to me yet to quit riding even though people who don't understand have suggested it.  But it has diminished the all-out abandon with which I used to approach a ride.  I am pretty careful who I ride with now because I know I'm not going to be going balls-out like I used to, my body and mind just won't allow it, and like you, DucMouse, it hurts my pride not to be the fast girl anymore.  I know it is saddle time though, that helps for me.  I just ride by myself all the time, not trying to impress anyone or keep up.  I practice my lines and corners and sometimes I go at an okay clip, other times, ridiculously cautious.  It's been less than a year since my last down and most of that winter months so I have a lot of confidence building to do.  Best of all though, I have learned a lot of respect for my bike.  Small though it may be, it has the power to buck me off in a second.  I hope that respect and learning how unpredictable traffic can be, will keep me off the pavement for a while. 

[kingbaby]

thx babe! Kingbaby need ya asap...can i ride cupcake with up the crest a couple of times?!?!   

maybe u can jump start my mojo?!?!

You know it!  but, you also know that I agree with "ass in the saddle" & good old fashion conversation about "what to do" is key.
Let me know when.

As far as Mojo goes, you have more than the rest of us combined.  Beeeeeehave.

[DucMouse the Mighty]

DucMouse,
I went up today and felt pretty rusty...and I had rides where I thought I was totally out of sink.
There are a lot of steps in quick succession if one wants to ride the Crest at a good pace and if you are
out of rhythm then it feels ugly.
Revisit all the steps you go through when riding Crest type roads and make sure you do all of them correctly.

my rhythum was outta wack...it was like me doing my nipple dance but one hand rubbing the middle of my back and the other hand rubbing my knee

I don't know for sure, Mouse, but I think everyone who rides longer than a few months goes through this at least once to some degree....some more severely than others.  I'll relate a personal story and a bit of advice, both of which you may feel free to disregard at your leisure.

The last time I wadded a bike hard was in 2003 at Barber Motorsports Park near Birmingham, AL in turn two.  It's a 180° right hander than starts in the trough of a little gully, then goes straight up the hill as it begins to turn right and apexes on the side of that hill and begins going back down into the trough.  I had ridden most of a day and was clipping along pretty well when I felt the front begin to slide a little more than I was comfortable with just past the apex of the turn.  Experience kicked in and told me that if the front was moving that I had overloaded the front wheel (easy to do with my frame, if you can imagine that ) and that I should increase my throttle to compensate.  As I wicked the throttle the slide became a tuck and off I went.

The accident absolutely killed my Supersport and left me hurting pretty badly, too.  I analyzed the accident and decided that what had happened was that the front had actually gone light at the apex when the hill "crested", and that my natural response to unload the overstressed front actually further lightened an already light wheel and precipitated the crash.  Since then I've had a few other acquaintances do the same thing in the same turn and they reached the same conclusion.....it's a spot that's contrary to normal motorcycling experience.

I bring this up because it was one of those experiences that REALLY shook my confidence.  I had done what 20 years of riding experience had dictated and I still ended up on my head.  I thought, I rationalized, I talked to friends, and I very nearly stopped riding because the outright collapse of my confidence took away my enjoyment of motorcycling for a period of about two years.  I avoided riding with my normal group because I knew they'd ride faster than I was comfortable riding (all of us were active or former racers and our street rides got pretty aggressive sometimes away from traffic).  I started going to classes (and eventually earned my MBA, so I guess the accident didn't come to naught) because I knew it would give me an excuse to stay out of the garage and off of the bike.

Eventually, I began to miss the adrenaline rush that comes with the perfect apex, and I eased back into riding again.  I visited the track at every opportunity to reinforce good habits, and to get that reinforcement in the safest environment I could.  I'd like to say some sort of bravery or something led me back to riding, but truth is I realized I love it and that was enough to put me back on track!

Now for the advice.  If you KNOW you want to ride, and you want to ride better, there are two simple ways to do that.  First, ride more.   There is no substitute for saddle time on a bike when it comes to developing skills and confidence.  Second, get good instruction.  I can tell you from experience that there are some things you SHOULD do on a motorcycle that you will never discover by yourself.  Body posotion is difficult to analyze when you're riding....it's easier if someone who knows what's happening tells you what you're doing poorly.  Countersteering is counterintuitive, and you do it whether you realize it or not, but it is important to understand it in critical situations where judgement takes over from muscle memory.  Braking is as much art and feel as it is brake pads and rotors, so having someone teach you how to do it properly is a good idea.  Also, having someone who rides well analyze your lines and show you where you're choosing them poorly and where you're choosing them well helps your riding technique greatly.  There are lots of things a good instructor can show you, and I can't mention all of them here.

I don't know who teaches classes out here, but it'd be worth a little investigation to find out.  I'm almost sure you could get decent instruction at Thunderbird in Phoenix, for instance, but I don't know what's offered in Albuquerque or Demming.  Roadracing World does an annual Track Day issue that shows who's teaching at what tracks, so you could look at that.  Also, there are some fixed schools if you want classes from a specific instructor.  For instance, Kevin Schwantz (former 500cc GP Champion....we call that series MotoGP now) teaches classes at Barber.  Others who teach lots of classes are Reg Pridmore, Jason Pridmore, Keith Code, Ed Bargy, Doug Pollen, and a host of others.  Also, many plain old trackdays offer individual or group instruction to a lesser degree, and are much less expensive.  I haven't been on track out here, but back east you could get into nearly any track day you wanted for a couple of hundred dollars.....and sometimes for much less at smaller tracks like Talledega Grand Prix or Carolina Motorsports Park.

So I guess what I'm saying is "get out there and ride".  Ride YOUR pace.  Hold your line.

Another 2 cents,

Cloner

thx that is a nice write up when i think about it i learned some bad habits while riding in town and straight aways and now i guess i just having problems getting passed them....such as the one keith is on me about now i have a problem with wanting to keep my legs up in the corner and "remember mouse just throw the knee not the whole leg, im not a motogp rider"

In my opinion you just need to relax and get some good time in up there.  Just solid quality time with the mountain.  It has been a while since we have been riding that road and to be fair it still isn't in perfect condition.  I know you want to be back in the same spot you were but that isn't being realistic.  Why do you think that all the pro athletes have spring training and things like that?  Plus when I am riding up there even if I am feeling good if I see a large spot of sand or rock in the road or whatever the case may be, it makes me a little apprehensive and then I notice it is easier to make a mistake and shake my confidence.  Give it some time girl....we have all summer!!! [moto]

i just wana have less chicken strips then the squrriels  but i dont need no stinky training im a champ already, its in my blood jk

thx for the imput godec

sometimes i just have no patients i guess....

Man, I really relate to this part of Cloner's post.  My two big off's happened in traffic and it still is with me every time I'm on my bike, in traffic or not.  I, also, had a mini-wad on the Crest which DucMouse and HP were present for.  All these within a year and a half.  It hasn't occurred to me yet to quit riding even though people who don't understand have suggested it.  But it has diminished the all-out abandon with which I used to approach a ride.  I am pretty careful who I ride with now because I know I'm not going to be going balls-out like I used to, my body and mind just won't allow it, and like you, DucMouse, it hurts my pride not to be the fast girl anymore.  I know it is saddle time though, that helps for me.  I just ride by myself all the time, not trying to impress anyone or keep up.  I practice my lines and corners and sometimes I go at an okay clip, other times, ridiculously cautious.  It's been less than a year since my last down and most of that winter months so I have a lot of confidence building to do.  Best of all though, I have learned a lot of respect for my bike.  Small though it may be, it has the power to buck me off in a second.  I hope that respect and learning how unpredictable traffic can be, will keep me off the pavement for a while. 

i mean there is so few of us girlies...i dont have to be in the front, i just wana be in the middles...but i know we never have that problem with group...we all know our limits of riding and if someone wants to go fast they can pass or we can toddle along just ride [moto] we all seem to take turns in different positions....but i like to be able to keep up when need be!- i mean when i rode with the denver crew( and we know how some of them ride) i knew mt limits and rode my pace and they waited for me( cause i didnt know there mt roads well and i wasnt going to risk anything)
it was a wake up call riding and realizing i have a big boy bike and now i just have to get back into the swing of using that throttle in the areas of the corners... i mean of course when i first got that bike and i always rode up the crest in the morning before work by myself and i was getting use to it....i just never realized being off the corner would do this to me now its like i have to relearn...which i find very nice! cause its a whole new bike

You know it!  but, you also know that I agree with "ass in the saddle" & good old fashion conversation about "what to do" is key.
Let me know when.

As far as Mojo goes, you have more than the rest of us combined.  Beeeeeehave.

for me im a physical learner...so riding cupcake seems to help me alot...and riding with ya last time i learned i can lean that far over on my right

thx!!! mojo is important

[kingbaby]

problems getting passed them....such as the one keith is on me about now i have a problem with wanting to keep my legs up in the corner and "remember mouse just throw the knee not the whole leg, im not a motogp rider"

Not exactly sure what that means.  BUT DON'T DO IT...   whatever it is   

[Scottish]

I keep my knees up too.... but I tend to ride in denim and getting a knee down would be a badddddd thing. Of course riding in denim isn't the best idea either.

[JJ]

I keep my knees up too.... but I tend to ride in denim and getting a knee down would be a badddddd thing. Of course riding in denim isn't the best idea either.

Same problem with Denim, though I'm hunting for the outer knee braces I have seen some riders wear...It may be worth an investment!!! One knee surgery (soccer) has added about 30 more years to its age...

[kingbaby]

I think where that started was me telling you one day to let the bike work for you, dont be so static, frozen ya know? I think hanging off the bike for no reason is silly, but letting it work "float" under you gives better feel for the road, giving you that smooth transition in the corners .
 You (mouse) being so small will sometimes have to put more umph into it than others might.

You're gonna' be great !    Hell, you already are.

[Cloner]

I keep my knees up too.... but I tend to ride in denim and getting a knee down would be a badddddd thing. Of course riding in denim isn't the best idea either.

I dunno, Scottish.  I ride in denim if I know I'm not going to do anything that imparts a high liklihood of sliding along asphalt.  I ALWAYS wear a helmet, gloves, boots, a jacket, and at least a pair of denim pants when I ride.  When I wanna go fast I wear a one piece leather.  I don't bother to "hang off" unless I really wanna go fast (some say that imparts bad habits...that you ride under stress like you ride when you're comfortable...but I think I've ridden enough at different paces that I'm comfortable either way) but I do make it a point to transfer weight (which I unfortunately have plenty of in my old age) to the inside peg, and shift my head and shoulders to the inside as well, most of the time.

I guess after a few years of racing and having a feel for what fast really is, it seem poseurish to hang off at street speeds.  Nothing looks more lame than a kid in shorts (no helmet or shirt, of course) riding a new literbike with 2" chicken strips hanging off of his bike at 30 mph in a 90 mph turn, clutching and shifting like mad cause he wants his bike to be "on the pipe".  He thinks he's flying, and I hope he's having fun, but I find it kinda funny inside.  Is that elitist?

Besides, the  will jerk the guy hanging off before he gets us "Hailwooders", cause he's going so much faster!! 


I have to say, though, after riding just a few miles with a few of this club's members, I was pretty impressed.  I rode in the back to see who I was riding with, and everybody held his (or her) line pretty well, and nobody got spooked.  We rode at a very modest pace (which I was gonna do anyway because I was wearing denim) and I don't believe I observed a single illegal act the whole time.  That's quite a departure from my old riding group, who prided themselves on safe but rude passes (the rider can see where he's going, so it's safe, but he passes on a double yellow at full throttle), high speed antics (what I'd call a 90% pace on the street...which is too much, but we did it anyway), and other anti-social behavior (wheelies....stoppies...etc.  Yes, that's really me in my avatar).  Most of those guys were older, and all but a couple were active or former roadracers, but there was definitely too much testosterone stuffed into those leathers!  It's good to hang with some slightly more responsible, but still socially "enlightened" (read "crude") Ducatisti.

I feel like a speedaholic at a Speed Adicts Anonymous meeting.  "Hi.  My name's Scott and I'm an adict."

[DucMouse the Mighty]

Not exactly sure what that means.  BUT DON'T DO IT...   whatever it is   

putting my legs down to early before stopping....or just hanging them off 

I think where that started was me telling you one day to let the bike work for you, dont be so static, frozen ya know? I think hanging off the bike for no reason is silly, but letting it work "float" under you gives better feel for the road, giving you that smooth transition in the corners .
 You (mouse) being so small will sometimes have to put more umph into it than others might.

You're gonna' be great !    Hell, you already are.

i was always thinking i would have to lean over a little...throw my weight around better....unless i start juicin and 

thx for the vote of confidence 

[kingbaby]

putting my legs down to early before stopping....or just hanging them off 


i was always thinking i would have to lean over a little...throw my weight around better....unless i start juicin and 

thx for the vote of confidence 

Ah, I get it now, and yes thats goofy.  I noticed last time we went out you weren't puting your feet down 50yrds. before a stoplight. 

You have to be clearer damnit. 

I will say you did just hear the same thing two different versions from cloner & me, which is cool.  WE AGREED ! 

You did go from "I rode the Crest, & I sucked"  to, "I ride like a dork in town"    I don't think we knew you started writing a new chapter.   Me was lost 

[DucMouse the Mighty]

Ah, I get it now, and yes thats goofy.  I noticed last time we went out you weren't puting your feet down 50yrds. before a stoplight. 

You have to be clearer damnit. 

I will say you did just hear the same thing two different versions from cloner & me, which is cool.  WE AGREED ! 

You did go from "I rode the Crest, & I sucked"  to, "I ride like a dork in town"    I don't think we knew you started writing a new chapter.   Me was lost 

sorry! my brain is not functioning very well...just tired and STILL IN SHOCK!!! 

need to find video somewhere so i can relive that moment again

[Goduc]

I feel like a speedaholic at a Speed Adicts Anonymous meeting.  "Hi.  My name's Scott and I'm an adict."

Hi, My name is Godec and I'm an addict.