You're too stupid to... own a diesel small truck

[Triple J]

I wouldn't expect as much of a mileage hit with a car vs a truck, since the truck is getting lower mileage numbers to begin with. The relative decrease would be more.

Hopefully VW got it right, and the small diesel trucks do the same. It's a common complaint from Ford, Chevy, & Dodge owners. I'm waiting to see how the new Dodge ecodiesel works out...still too new. It often takes 20K miles or so before problems start happening.

Admittedly, the HD diesel trucks are a different animal from the lightweight vehicles though.

[ducatiz]

The post-mechanical systems in the VW are Bosch CRD type and the entire system (FWIW) is a Bosch design they've been perfecting for years in the MB and BMWs overseas.

I think they've just had more time to perfect it and the problem for GM/Ford is they have to reinvent the wheel due to patent issues.

[Triple J]

The post-mechanical systems in the VW are Bosch CRD type and the entire system (FWIW) is a Bosch design they've been perfecting for years in the MB and BMWs overseas.

I think they've just had more time to perfect it and the problem for GM/Ford is they have to reinvent the wheel due to patent issues.

Not sure they've been perfecting it for years...DPFs and Urea injection systems are relatively new. Not required in Europe until 2013, when their emmission laws caught up with the US. They may have just done a better job though.

That said, the fuel pump (CP4) on Duramax LML motors (2011+) are Bosch...and they're known to come apart and take most of the fuel system with them.

I think the main reason we're finally seeing European small diesels in the US is because the EU regulations finally caught up to the US so they might as well send them over.

[the_Journeyman]

Can't I just toss a Detroit 8V71 in my Dakota and say I have a small diesel truck?  With a motor that probably outweighs the truck...  Lol

JM

[Lucumon]

Ok, since we havent spoken about the Jeep Grand Cherokee in about 20 pages and a year and a half... anyone have any thoughts on them since they've been out a while?  I am going to be on the market for a new vehicle here soon... a Diesel Jeep is my current front-runner.

[Kev M]

Ok, since we havent spoken about the Jeep Grand Cherokee in about 20 pages and a year and a half... anyone have any thoughts on them since they've been out a while?  I am going to be on the market for a new vehicle here soon... a Diesel Jeep is my current front-runner.

I can't comment about the diesel motor in the GC, but we've got a gas version of the current chassis (2012 Limited, v6 petrol) and it's an EXCELLENT vehicle.

We've off-roaded (dunes and forest trails), run long distance on the highway, plowed through snowstorms, done some light towing and run around town in ours. It's not disappointed in any way.

The gas motor has turned in better than EPA fuel numbers. Rated at 16/23 ours regularly delivers 18-20 / 24-26. Since it burns low octane, it would literally take the life of the vehicle to recoup the approx $5k difference between the V6 petrol and the diesel. And that doesn't include things like DEF or higher maintenance costs.

I suspect the only real reason to go with it is for towing... Or a Zombie Apocalypse.

I'm currently debating my next vehicle and I'm between the Wrangler Unlimited, New Chevy Colorado, and Dodge Ram.

Ironically all three either offer or reportedly will offer a diesel by 2016, but I'll likely go gas.

[Lucumon]

I don't think you can compare the V-6 Petrol to the V-6 Diesel... The V-8 to the V-6 Diesel would be appropriate... and the price delta there is much lower and the fuel efficiency difference much greater.

I guess my concern is reliability... the new 8 speed had major issues for those manufactured before Dec. 2013.  And most people either love or hate Jeeps.... but, seriously, I have a Ducati, how is this any different?

[Kev M]

I don't think you can compare the V-6 Petrol to the V-6 Diesel... The V-8 to the V-6 Diesel would be appropriate... and the price delta there is much lower and the fuel efficiency difference much greater.

I guess my concern is reliability... the new 8 speed had major issues for those manufactured before Dec. 2013.  And most people either love or hate Jeeps.... but, seriously, I have a Ducati, how is this any different?

Well it depends on what you're looking to compare the diesel on, towing ability or fuel efficiency.

The diesel is obviously the king of towing capacity, but only edges the petrol v6 out in fuel efficiency.

The Hemi gives the diesel a run for the money in towing, but loses more in efficiency.

Still the petrol motors can run on low octane (currently $2.86 around here) while diesel is currently commanding $3.60-$3.70 so NEARLY a dollar more). Add the cost of DEF and the fact the diesel is STILL a premium on initial purchase over the Hemi and you're currently still years away from break even points.

Some guys on the Jeep forum have run the numbers repeatedly and it rarely makes sense unless you're towing a lot and often.

[ducatiz]

Not sure they've been perfecting it for years...DPFs and Urea injection systems are relatively new. Not required in Europe until 2013, when their emmission laws caught up with the US. They may have just done a better job though.

That said, the fuel pump (CP4) on Duramax LML motors (2011+) are Bosch...and they're known to come apart and take most of the fuel system with them.

I think the main reason we're finally seeing European small diesels in the US is because the EU regulations finally caught up to the US so they might as well send them over.

I meant VW has been perfecting small diesel engines for years.  DPF and Urea are new, but VW's diesels are not and they really went to the mat to make unit injectors (pd) workable with the crazy tight emissions laws. 

Most PD engines are still within spec on modern emissions EXCEPT for the soot.

There is one bad batch of Bosch pumps which were also a problem on the 2009-2010 VW TDI models.  My car had the "implosion" and VW replaced everything on the fuel line -- and washed out the tank too.  Every hose, injector, rail, filter, pump -- like $5000 worth of parts alone.

European diesel is better quality than the US, so they didn't need to make the engines as tight as ours.  Silly really.

[ducatiz]

Well it depends on what you're looking to compare the diesel on, towing ability or fuel efficiency.

The diesel is obviously the king of towing capacity, but only edges the petrol v6 out in fuel efficiency.

The Hemi gives the diesel a run for the money in towing, but loses more in efficiency.

Still the petrol motors can run on low octane (currently $2.86 around here) while diesel is currently commanding $3.60-$3.70 so NEARLY a dollar more). Add the cost of DEF and the fact the diesel is STILL a premium on initial purchase over the Hemi and you're currently still years away from break even points.

Some guys on the Jeep forum have run the numbers repeatedly and it rarely makes sense unless you're towing a lot and often.

All things being equal, diesel engines last longer.

The guy that works on my car tows cars with his 600,000 mile Jetta TDI.  Original engine.  Has had valve work and replaced the tranny, and that's it.  That kind of mileage is not unheard of with diesel motors.

Longevity is a huge advantage of diesels.   Pulling power is definitely more too.

Here in VA, the state rebates about half the state tax on diesel if your car is for personal use only.  You have to keep receipts, but it ends up costing about the same as mid-grade gas.

I get over 35 mpg in city driving and about 50 in highway in my 2010 jetta.  My neighbor gets about 30 mpg in his Toyota Corolla with an I4 engine. 

[Kev M]

Good points and certainly worth considering, but irrelevant to me. I can't see ever keeping any car or truck that long. And there's no tax advantage here (no personal property tax).

[Lucumon]

Even if you dont plan to keep the vehicle... wouldnt that mean that depreciation is less so therefore you'd be able to sell the vehicle for a higher price?

[Kev M]

Even if you dont plan to keep the vehicle... wouldnt that mean that depreciation is less so therefore you'd be able to sell the vehicle for a higher price?

MAYBE, but I wouldn't count on it.

[ducatiz]

Good points and certainly worth considering, but irrelevant to me. I can't see ever keeping any car or truck that long. And there's no tax advantage here (no personal property tax).

Not personal property.   Fuel tax. 

[ducatiz]

Even if you dont plan to keep the vehicle... wouldnt that mean that depreciation is less so therefore you'd be able to sell the vehicle for a higher price?

And that's why diesel jeep libertys sell for 20-30% more than identical gas models.