No start

[JoshuaCJCohen]

When I was washing out the tank removing the accumulated grime, this fell out.  I don't know where it goes or what it is for.



I soaked the cap base in vinegar for about two hours.  Washed it off, opened the clogged holes, cleaned the groove the green O ring fits in, looks good but rough.  As I would expect with aluminum.  Ready to go back on the tank when it is done.

Even though the gas tank is off I hooked everything up (jump wire from T30 to T87 in the fuel pump relay), reconnected the 4 terminal connector and retested the fuel sender leads.  12VDC.  On a whim I connected the fuel pump and it buzzed to live for about 10 seconds before it quit.  I had previously cleaned the leads and prongs.  I think the filth was interfering with the current.  But if that was all it was why did the pump shut down after 10 seconds?  If this is normal operation should I still replace it or is this one good?

Lastly, and this might be a stupid question, can someone explain to me the piping in the tank?   I've got two hoses that connect to the cap base and that piping goes overboard.  I've got the pump to the filter to a pipe that should go to the engine.  At the bottom I've also got a pipe that is right next to the pump.  This is either a return like for excess fuel and shutdown or a gravity feed to the other piston.  Since the sludge is always going to gather at the bottom I assume this is a return line.  Can someone please verify? 

Thanks,
Josh

[ducpainter]

The rubber piece is a baffle to prevent gas from sloshing up to the cap when the tank is full. It mounts to the cap holder on the bottom. You can reinstall it, but chances are it will fall off again.

The pump running for 10 seconds and then stopping is normal. That's the ecu telling the pump to prime. I'm not certain if the pump starts again during the cranking cycle or when the bike starts.

I think you have a bad solder joint in the fuel sender. I think when you removed it you moved the wires around enough to get a connection.

Take your meter and set it to ohms and test the wires going into the tank while moving them around. One lead to each end of an individual wire...no voltage or you'll fry the meter.

The two large diameter tubes are fuel feed and return. There is no gravity feed on a FI bike. The return tube is close to the tank bottom.

The small tubes are cap area drain and vent.

[JoshuaCJCohen]

The rubber piece is a baffle to prevent gas from sloshing up to the cap when the tank is full. It mounts to the cap holder on the bottom. You can reinstall it, but chances are it will fall off again.

The pump running for 10 seconds and then stopping is normal. That's the ecu telling the pump to prime. I'm not certain if the pump starts again during the cranking cycle or when the bike starts.

I think you have a bad solder joint in the fuel sender. I think when you removed it you moved the wires around enough to get a connection.

Take your meter and set it to ohms and test the wires going into the tank while moving them around. One lead to each end of an individual wire...no voltage or you'll fry the meter.

The two large diameter tubes are fuel feed and return. There is no gravity feed on a FI bike. The return tube is close to the tank bottom.

The small tubes are cap area drain and vent.

Baffle is optional then?  I wont install it.  I see no need for it to float around the tank needlessly.

Multimeter was variable for about 10 seconds after I got the leads hooked up, then it settled in at 5 Ohms. (I was on the RX10 setting so I'm assuming that is 50 ohms?) Once it settled on the 5 mark I couldn't get it to budge no matter how I moved the wires.

Copy all on the tubes.  Thanks.  Where do I find a lead on the epoxy to clean up the wires on the fuel sender?

Thanks.

[ducpainter]

Did you check both power and ground?

50 ohms is a lot for that short piece of wire. I would expect close to zero.

I got nothing on what to coat the bare spot on the wire.

[JoshuaCJCohen]

Ducpainter,
Maybe I didn't do it right.  I connected the 4 terminal harness back up and had the fuel pump relay installed.  I put the multimeter red to the red wire and the black to the black.  I don't know what you mean when you say "Did you check both power and ground?"  I would say "Yes, I checked them at the same time."  Was that the right configuration?

I just retested the ohm meter.  On RX10 is reads 5. On RX100 it reads 3.  On RX1K it reads 2.  It is an analog multimeter.  Does that mean it's has 50, 300 or 2K ohms resistance?  I doubt it.  I'll try to get a digital meter and redo.

[ducpainter]

When you check resistance you don't use voltage as I said in my post earlier.

The rubber piece is a baffle to prevent gas from sloshing up to the cap when the tank is full. It mounts to the cap holder on the bottom. You can reinstall it, but chances are it will fall off again.

The pump running for 10 seconds and then stopping is normal. That's the ecu telling the pump to prime. I'm not certain if the pump starts again during the cranking cycle or when the bike starts.

I think you have a bad solder joint in the fuel sender. I think when you removed it you moved the wires around enough to get a connection.

Take your meter and set it to ohms and test the wires going into the tank while moving them around. One lead to each end of an individual wire...no voltage or you'll fry the meter.

The two large diameter tubes are fuel feed and return. There is no gravity feed on a FI bike. The return tube is close to the tank bottom.

The small tubes are cap area drain and vent.

You set the meter on the 10x scale and check resistance with one test lead on each end of the same wire.

The black and the red wires of the sender are the ones we're concerned with here. If the solder joints in the sender are still sound you'll get very close to a zero reading.

[suzyj]

I'm a big fan of diving in and learning, but I'm starting to think you're best off taking your bike to a professional.

[ducpainter]

I'm a big fan of diving in and learning, but I'm starting to think you're best off taking your bike to a professional.

I think he'll be OK if he takes the time to actually read the posts.

[JoshuaCJCohen]

Ok, that was embarrassing.

Testing each wire individually, with a lead at each end, I have between 0 and 1 Ohm on the RX10 scale, which is the smallest scale available.

I did say this was my first time doing any maintenance on an engine.  Luckily, I'm not really working on the engine. 

I really appreciate everyone's help.  Just realize what is obvious to you, testing resistance across a single wire, is not obvious to me.  And keep on with the pokes, I know I deserve it.  I've got thick skin. 

Victory.

[ducpainter]

I realize it isn't obvious which is why I tried to make the instructions explicit.

Did you move the wires around during the correct resistance test?

[JoshuaCJCohen]

I did. I saw no fluctuations on the multimeter.

[ducpainter]

I did. I saw no fluctuations on the multimeter.

In that case the sender should be OK. They are a known issue. Much more so than faulty pumps. Your call as to whether you trust it.

You have to decide if you trust the old pump, now that it is running, or if you replace it because you're in there.

Now that you know how much fun it is to remove it's your call as to whether you want to possibly have to go through this again.

My indecision stems from the fact you really haven't found a cause for the pump not running one day and then running after disassembly.

[JoshuaCJCohen]

I've ordered the PRO-15 cleaning kit, new filter, new pump, new screen and new hoses.  With all that I'm going to reassemble after prepping the tank and see what happens.

As the fuel lines are now disconnected to I need to cover them or seal them to prevent moisture from entering the engine?  I've wrapped syran wrap with rubberbands around the opening for now.  Is this required and is there a better method?

[ducpainter]

I wouldn't worry about it with what you've already done.

[JoshuaCJCohen]

I put the old fuel pump in a bucket of gas and connected it to the battery with jump wires.  Came to life no problem.  I was hoping to confirm it was dead or not and clean it out if it wasn't. Sure enough there was a significant amount of rust chips at the bottom of the bucket.  Is there anything in the fuel pump that would rust or is that rust from the inside of the tank?  If it is rust from the tank will running fuel through it clean all the rust out or is the pump a lost cause?



if it is salvageable I will keep the old one as an emergency spare as I have a new one on the way from the States.

Now convinced that my problem was dirty and corroded leads I connected all the wires (4 terminal under the seat, fuel sending unit wires to fuel pump) put my new fuel filter inline between the old fuel pump and the engine inlet, put the pump back in a clean bucket of gas and turned the key.  Fuel pumps energized and primed.  I hit the start button and the engine, after a few sputters, roared to life pulling fuel from the bucket.  I let it run for about 10 minutes and shut it down.

I will not be putting everything back together as the gas tank's corrosion seems to be the guilty party for all my troubles and I have to clean that up first.  But I think this test confirms my problem was dirty tank, rusty gas and corroded leads.  Ducpainter, Howie, do you have another theory or idea what might have been the problem?