Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates

[twolanefun]

There is no easy solution, if there was Ducati and/or the dealers would have offered one. Like I said once before it is curious to me how the design of many of the new tanks has some sort of cover/panels over top of a fuel cell/bladder, that is true with other brands not just Ducati. So while I'm no chemical engineer, it's seems as though the OEMs knew about a potential problem and had to devise a way to use ugly material that cannot be painted or material they knew would expand without causing a safety issue and in both cases needed a way to cover it. Just MHO - Gene

[ducatiz]

There is no easy solution, if there was Ducati and/or the dealers would have offered one. Like I said once before it is curious to me how the design of many of the new tanks has some sort of cover/panels over top of a fuel cell/bladder, that is true with other brands not just Ducati. So while I'm no chemical engineer, it's seems as though the OEMs knew about a potential problem and had to devise a way to use ugly material that cannot be painted or material they knew would expand without causing a safety issue and in both cases needed a way to cover it. Just MHO - Gene

I disagree on this.  The coating works if applied correctly.

Nylon-6 is 70+ years old and epoxies specifically made for Nylon-6 (and other polyamides) have been around for at least 2 decades -- the first polyamine hardener epoxies were developed in the 1930s.

More than one manufacturer makes polyamide-specific epoxy coatings and adhesives for industrial applications and they are all fuel/ethanol/water proof.

It's there.

[twolanefun]

I'm sure your right, that is why Ducati and/or the dealers are clamoring to coat our tanks. It's also why they replaced 2-3 tanks for some owners, before the lawsuit, instead of coating the tanks. It's a shame our good friend Bill and DMF member isn't still alive he would be the perfect guy to educate us on this and probably somebody Ducati and the courts would listen to. - Gene

[junior varsity]

I'm sure your right, that is why Ducati and/or the dealers are clamoring to coat our tanks. It's also why they replaced 2-3 tanks for some owners, before the lawsuit, instead of coating the tanks. It's a shame our good friend Bill and DMF member isn't still alive he would be the perfect guy to educate us on this and probably somebody Ducati and the courts would listen to. - Gene

i smell sarcasm, though I think its misplaced.  Dealers and DNA aren't clamoring to coat the tanks for several related reasons: Cost, Unsupervised Third-Party Labor, Risk of Improper-Application, etc.

[ducatiz]

I'm sure your right, that is why Ducati and/or the dealers are clamoring to coat our tanks. It's also why they replaced 2-3 tanks for some owners, before the lawsuit, instead of coating the tanks. It's a shame our good friend Bill and DMF member isn't still alive he would be the perfect guy to educate us on this and probably somebody Ducati and the courts would listen to. - Gene

Dealers are in fact clamoring to do it, for $200-250 each.

As far as to why Acerbis or Ducati isn't doing it, no one can say.  What I can say, is that there are many manufacturers familiar with polyamide adhesives and they work, period.

Here is one:

http://www.reltekllc.com/adhesives-for-nylon.html

[Uncle Mofo]

I asked Ducati Indianapolis to coat my new tank that just came in.  I was told they will not coat it, I guess a conflict of interest with DNA.
But they will ship it out to a 3rd party for coating if I chose to do so..

[ducatiz]

I asked Ducati Indianapolis to coat my new tank that just came in.  I was told they will not coat it, I guess a conflict of interest with DNA.
But they will ship it out to a 3rd party for coating if I chose to do so..

Few of the dealers coat it themselves, they ship it out.  There are only a few dealers that do it themselves.

There is no reason they can't, they just don't want to.

[twolanefun]

Look I'm not trying to start a fight with anyone here but the discussion has been somewhat lopsided and I want everyone here to see/consider some different views. 1. There are cases of coated tanks still having issues. 2. The cost for Ducati to coat the tank with their labor, or a vendor under their supervision has to be less than replacing the tank 2, 3, and at least one case I know of 4 times. 3. HD is still doing replacement on XRs and they have not suggested any other solution, my guess is that they are going to stop after some time period but so far they have not said that. The tank on my XR has not shown any noticeable expansion as yet, like others have. 4. Assuming proper coating of the tank works, where is the dealer vendor that will do it and provide a lifetime warranty? CA Cycle will proivde such a warranty on their tanks and yes I know it's because of the material they use. 5. I have talked to multiple dealers, they want nothing to do with coating or those that will do not want to provided any sort of extended warranty, a 1 year warranty isn't sufficient IMHO. 6. I'm having less of a problem with my tanks than others are, the bikes are kept in an environmentally controlled area except when they are ridden locally or on a trip, and I also keep the tanks full. I'm guessing eventually the new tank on the S2R1000 is going to expand but that is 18-24 months away if it goes the way of the first tank, maybe longer since I now keep the bike stored when not in use. I'm looking for a permanent solution for the S2R and the HD and right now I'm not convinced on coating it. - Gene

[junior varsity]

You can't compare with CA Cycleworks tanks - they aren't paint-able. Not even sticker-able.

[ducatiz]

Gene

I appreciate your point of view, always.

However, the only tanks I know of that have had problems after being coated are due to a bad coating job being done.  Either the prep of the tank, the mixing, or the coating hasn't been applied to the entire surface.  If there is even a small area of exposure, the tank could still absorb water and deform.  I have to assume that covering most of the inside will prevent deformation, but clearly, all of it is preferable.  Precipitate water will sink to the bottom, but condensate water will stick to the top until it drips down.

However, there is no doubt that the right coatings adhere and also no doubt that they are impervious to ethanol/water/fuel.

Dealers never give a warranty on aftermarket work like this, it's just not done.  If you get a dealer to install HC pistons, see what kind of warranty on your engine you get -- nothing. 

CA provides a warranty on their tanks because 1) he is the manufacturer and sole reseller and makes all the money off the sale and 2) he knows without a doubt the tank is impervious to water and ethanol.  In the case of a dealer, he isn't the maker of the coating nor the tank and is only making a small amount from the labor of coating the tank -- the economy of scale isn't there.  CA's warranty is a manufacturer warranty, not a dealer's.

Lastly, I think your storing your bike in a environmentally controlled area is probably the best prevention given the real culprit is water as in condensation or humidity. 

[twolanefun]

You can't compare with CA Cycleworks tanks - they aren't paint-able. Not even sticker-able.

I'm very aware of that as I indicated in a previous post and why after the dust settles with Ducati I'm likely going to replace the tanks with a metal one, like I have on my M900. - Gene

[AMGnDuc]

The coating process takes a while to do--the coating process alone took me several hours of swishing, swirling, draining, and repeating.  I can see why Ducati doesn't do it themselves.  (In addition to the fact that if they did it, and it happened to fail, they couldn't claim their tanks with Acerbis).

Going forward, most have hidden or metal tanks, so it's really only an issue for the now-older bikes that had the plastic tanks.  It's a PITA, but as has been said before, either keep getting them replaced or just coat it.

[twolanefun]

Going forward, most have hidden or metal tanks, so it's really only an issue for the now-older bikes that had the plastic tanks.  It's a PITA, but as has been said before, either keep getting them replaced or just coat it.

I don't think you quite understand the gravity of the situation, or you are not current. If the class action settlement goes through you are not going to be able to continue to replace. It's also not clear what Ducati might do if the settlement does not go through. - Gene

[xsephirot]

I don't think you quite understand the gravity of the situation, or you are not current. If the class action settlement goes through you are not going to be able to continue to replace. It's also not clear what Ducati might do if the settlement does not go through. - Gene

+1. The current settlement proposal is complete bs. I'm hoping enough people wrote their rejection letters. It's hard to tell how many people did based on a couple of forums when I'm pretty sure the majority do not follow forums.

[Fergus]

I'm sorry to say I didn't do a rejection letter. Been so busy lately I let it slip. Sorry guys, I let you down.

That settlement is BS. A major defect is the fact that one of the requirements for replacement/repair is that it is already leaking. That's a safety issue and the expansion that causes the leak should be a preemptive repair.