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Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates

Started by ducatiz, June 09, 2009, 12:56:37 PM

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ducpainter

#2115
December 31, 2011, 12:45:51 PM
Quote from: ducatiz on December 31, 2011, 11:53:35 AM
how many have you coated and what are you using?
I've done 3 or 4 and I'm using a urethane reducer.

All reducers are a blend of solvents like xylene, toluene, etc. I don't have the msds for the product I'm using.

The urethane reducers are the highest quality due to lack of water in the blend. Activated urethanes will not tolerate any of it. It will kill the cure of activated products, while it creates the cure of products like POR.
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


jgrm1

#2116
December 31, 2011, 04:39:35 PM
I have visions of ruined exterior paint finish from sloshing and draining solvents.  What is the technique to protect the paint finish?

-Jeff
BMW:  2016 R1200RS, 2000 R1100S, 1975 R90S
Ducati:  2008 S2R1000, 1998 900 Supersport Final Edition
Norton:  1974 Commando 850
Triumph:  2016 Thruxton R, 1971 T120R

ducpainter

#2117
December 31, 2011, 05:17:27 PM
Quote from: jgrm1 on December 31, 2011, 04:39:35 PM
I have visions of ruined exterior paint finish from sloshing and draining solvents.  What is the technique to protect the paint finish?

-Jeff
Lots of tape and proper sealing of the openings.
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


jgrm1

#2118
December 31, 2011, 06:26:32 PM
Quote from: ducpainter on December 31, 2011, 05:17:27 PM
Lots of tape and proper sealing of the openings.

Safest to fill and drain out the fuel pump opening?

-Jeff
BMW:  2016 R1200RS, 2000 R1100S, 1975 R90S
Ducati:  2008 S2R1000, 1998 900 Supersport Final Edition
Norton:  1974 Commando 850
Triumph:  2016 Thruxton R, 1971 T120R

ducpainter

#2119
December 31, 2011, 06:33:15 PM
Quote from: jgrm1 on December 31, 2011, 06:26:32 PM
Safest to fill and drain out the fuel pump opening?

-Jeff
I have a rubber plug that fits the filler, and I make block off plates for the different pump flanges from Plexiglas.

I do fill and drain from the bottom.
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


SSCR

#2120
January 02, 2012, 02:47:28 PM
Not to keep beating a dead horse with this thread, but I just finally noticed my tank buldging. All the same things, ripples, rubber mount on right side off the frame rail, dings in each side from the bars, cant open the latch and finally pushing aganist my ignition. My bike is a 2005 with under 5000 miles, I know low miles but I have other bikes. Will I still qualify for a replacement? I have the Class Action letter, and it says good for 18 months past decision (Sept 2011) so I think I should be good? After a new tank I will just try to find a gas station with no Ethanol or get it coated. Thanks

ducatiz

#2121
January 02, 2012, 03:33:12 PM
the settlement hasn't been finalized
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

SSCR

#2122
January 02, 2012, 04:55:14 PM
Thanks Ducatiz, well that sucks. Guess I'm out of luck in getting a tank. Maybe I'll bite the bullet and buy one now and maybe I'll be reimbursed when it's finalized?? Either way I love the bike and was thinking of getting a used Sport 1000, might have to change my mind.

ducatiz

#2123
January 02, 2012, 05:21:09 PM
no take it to your dealer.  you may get a new tank without much hassle based on your description.  do it fast.
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

ducatiz

#2124
January 05, 2012, 10:18:58 AM Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 08:05:28 PM by ducatiz
The fairness hearing in the Settlement is tomorrow.  I have no idea what the judge is going to do -- his history would suggest he likes settlements a lot.

I cannot say what effect the objections will have.  There were a paltry number and Girard Gibbs made a point of that in their response to the objections, specifically pointing out that I have over 400 people signed up the Yahoo group, but "only" got 15 people to send in their objections.  It's a valid point.  If you can't get off your ass to send in a pre-filled out form to me....

In their response to me, they got completely wrong several points, which I now wish I could have arranged to be there to correct.

1.  I did not claim that ethanol is not involved in the problem.  I correctly pointed out that ethanol ALONE is not the problem.   Water is the problem, ethanol exacerbates this because it is hydrophilic.  I also correctly pointed out that the various manufacturers of PA6 Nylon claim that it is impervious to alcohols.

2.  They claim that one of the exhibits I attached (the Minnesota E20 study) supports that ethanol does cause expansion.  I pointed out that the study used a testing standard with a 50% ambient humidity requirement.  Perhaps I should have made that clearer, but the point was that the test did NOT look at inducing problems with PA6 Nylon with ethanol ALONE.  Also, in the study, they used a hypothetical "test mixture" of gasoline (E10/E20) with 1% volume of water added to simulate pump gasoline.  Moreover, EVERY SINGLE MANUFACTURER of PA6 (BASF for instance) report that PA6 absorbs up to 10% by volume of water but report negligible absorption of alcohols including ethanol.  The longer the polymer, the less absorption -- Nylon 12 absorbs far less than Nylon 6.

3.  I stated, and provided an exhibit, that vendors sell PA6/Nylon specific epoxy formulations which are a) designed to fully adhere to all polyamides (i.e. Nylon, teflon, etc) and b) are fully resistant to fuel, alcohols and water.  They proffered the prior statement by a witness (not publicly available) that epoxy coatings would not work and refer to an unsourced comment by someone at 3M that their epoxy coating products may not be appropriate for nylons.  That misses the point and ignores the evidence.  There are dozens of formulations of epoxy and there are at least a handful that work perfectly with nylon. 

I can't say what will come, the judge may actually read my objection and exhibits and realize that the Girard Gibbs response simply misstates some of the facts and claims, but I don't know what likelihood there is for that. 

I just wish more of you would have sent in objections.  As it is, about 25-30 people objected out of about 30-40,000 motorcycles affected.  I think the actual number affected is on the lower end of that range, so maybe about 30,000 bikes.  that means that 1/10th of 1 percent objected. 
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

Raux

#2125
January 05, 2012, 11:06:05 AM
In a class action suit, isn't the point that a few can speak for many?

ducatiz

#2126
January 05, 2012, 11:55:01 AM
Quote from: Raux on January 05, 2012, 11:06:05 AM
In a class action suit, isn't the point that a few can speak for many?

thats exactly the point but the reality is that the vast majority of suits are driven by attorneys in search of a plaintiff rather that plaintiffs in search of a solution.

this lawsuit is no different. 
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

jgrm1

#2127
January 05, 2012, 01:14:32 PM
Quote from: ducatiz on January 05, 2012, 10:18:58 AMOnce the settlement is done, I'm going to lock this thread, maybe delete it.  I'm not happy right now.

I would not delete the thread.  There is much valuable information on these 142 pages that could benefit a future owner. 

-Jeff
BMW:  2016 R1200RS, 2000 R1100S, 1975 R90S
Ducati:  2008 S2R1000, 1998 900 Supersport Final Edition
Norton:  1974 Commando 850
Triumph:  2016 Thruxton R, 1971 T120R

Frisco

#2128
January 05, 2012, 01:52:34 PM
So as it stands once (if) ratified we have 18 months for owners of older models to get another tank and after that it's on our own dime correct?
2007 S4RS

ducatiz

#2129
January 05, 2012, 02:54:39 PM
Quote from: Frisco on January 05, 2012, 01:52:34 PM
So as it stands once (if) ratified we have 18 months for owners of older models to get another tank and after that it's on our own dime correct?

the replacement tank will have a 6 month warranty
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.
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