Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates

[Curmudgeon]

Did you ever solve your cold running issue?

50/50 on the cold start. Today, after sitting for two weeks because it's been 102 F - 106 F down here since before "the Great Storm", it fired right up. Not the way it's supposed to..., but it started first go. It was 85 F and sunny and I wasn't missing a brisk 50-mile lunch ride, NO WAY!!! 

Are you familiar with Siemens EFi and Siemens cold start protocols? Unfortunately I am as we had it on one of our car models for 5 years. Can be a real PITA because Siemens sometimes takes shortcuts with the software.

Anyway..., for the first 500 miles, the bike started per the drill. Then it developed a hiccup. "Normal" is turn the key on, wait for the ECU to scroll through everything on the display until the total mileage comes up, then hit the starter. It's "supposed" to start, idle at 2,000, and then quickly settle to 1,200.

When it starts, as in today, it goes right to 1,200 RPM. If it fails to catch the first time, no amount of recycling will bring it to life until you've tried ~ 15 times. Bit hard on the equipment!

BTW, it ALWAYS fires, but sometimes doesn't catch. If I were able to keep the starter turning, it would probably always catch. Problem is..., as soon at it fires even once, the ECU disables the starter. Then cranking becomes more or less futile.

On another forum ages ago I found a M1100S owner with identical symptoms who discovered a workaround. Very simple. When it fails to catch, wait 5 minutes and try again. Without fail, fires right up if I do. Still not the correct protocol though as it idles at 1,200 immediately. If I run it for 15 seconds and THEN restart, it follows the "normal" protocol, i.e. 2,000 settling to 1,200. (Ask me whether I've seen this before... )

At 900 miles at my first service, Donnie and I put the bike on the computer after changing the oil and doing a bunch of other stuff. It was cold, but not STONE cold. Roughly 30 parameters were within spec, defaults reset..., and then we fired it up, which it did "normally", and we allowed it to warm up and watched the O2 sensors come online. Nothing showed.

Maybe Donnie could find something if I towed ($$$) it up there stone cold 140 miles, but he's aware and I'm not travelling until I actually NEED something. 

My conclusion: from past Siemens experience, there is a duff component on the board which is intermittent, and/or two sensors are nominal but together throw off the already very lean starting mixture, and/or my valves loosening up compounded the above.

Now to your agenda: the "5 minute wait" workaround is suggestive of the duff ECU component but pretty much eliminates fuel volatility as a factor.

I'm not questioning your knowledge or experience with Marelli bikes. Whether that applies to the new bikes which are meeting Euro 3/US EPA regs a different way, time will tell. In the event it does, I'll run some CF-5 through it occasionally. Can't hurt and definitely takes care of the issues your raise. CF-5 was the best way to deal with multiple misfire codes and MIL lights caused by carbon on intakes. http://www.bgprod.com/products/fuelair.html Not snake oil, manufacturer-approved by BMW, Benz, Land Rover, et al.

The only pure gas available to me is 93 or 87. Not planning on burning 87 in the thing or mixing. Sure, I could hear a death rattle, but minor detonation is almost inaudible on a bike and is still harmful. Why risk it?

A full Termi kit might well cure my cold start if I happened to get a good ECU but I'm not that unhappy with the bike in stock trim. Could be fatter in the midrange and if Donnie approves, the next time the bike is up there, I might ask him to source some Dynojet O2 manipulators from a PC-V kit. The bike goes well enough and makes enough noise currently to satisfy me anyway.

[lawbreaker]

Just thought i'd chime in... again.


I'm on my 3rd tank and it's elongated to the point where i'll be visiting the dealer AGAIN for a new tank...


Tank #4 here i come !!


-waiting for word on an Aluminum tank so i can mount it and forget it !

[JDub713]

Just thought I'd chime in... again.


I'm on my 3rd tank and it's elongated to the point where i'll be visiting the dealer AGAIN for a new tank...


Tank #4 here i come !!


-waiting for word on an Aluminum tank so i can mount it and forget it !

Not sure if you've stated it previously, but of all the tanks you've done, have you had any of them coated yet? Seems to be a hit/miss thing as far as preventing swelling. I have tank #2 coming from Italy right now, figured since my settlement warranty extension is only 6 months from replacement date, I may as well void my tank warranty and try the caswell coating.

[SDRider]

LOL!   

The fact is, back when I used premium my bike ran like crap.  It got to the point that it wouldn't run at all because the plugs were fouled so much.  This is a problem that has not returned since I began burning regular gas.

I talked to the service department at my Ducati dealer and they also recommended I run premium gas in my bike.

[ducatiz]

I talked to the service department at my Ducati dealer and they also recommended I run premium gas in my bike.

They probably told you to only use Shell Advance 4T as well.

[bmonty72]

I talked to the service department at my Ducati dealer and they also recommended I run premium gas in my bike.

I believe that is because there is a better chance of getting ethanol free fuel when you buy the premium grade.  Unfortunately, even if you buy the premium at a station where there is one hose for three grades of fuel, you run the chance of getting a little ethanol with each tank....

[ducatiz]

I've bought gas up and down the east coast and if there is ethanol in the 87, there is ethanol in the 93.

of course y'all are all smart enough to know that "mid" grade is just a mix of the two.

[Desert Dust]

I've been exclusively using Chevron or Shell premium and I'm on my third tank.

By the way, is there a good tutorial on how to coat a tank with Caswells? I have the tank and the coating, but I need to read up on the process.

Thanks

[MikeZ]

The tutorial section is your friend
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=58355.0

[Airborne]

so without reading 170pages of thread....If im already on my second tank and need a third, can I still get a third for free after the law suit?

[NorDog]

so without reading 170pages of thread....If im already on my second tank and need a third, can I still get a third for free after the law suit?

Only after passing a comprehensive oral and written essay examination covering the 170 pages of this thread.

[SDRider]

I've been exclusively using Chevron or Shell premium and I'm on my third tank.

By the way, is there a good tutorial on how to coat a tank with Caswells? I have the tank and the coating, but I need to read up on the process.

Thanks

A friend of mine did it to his Sport Classic and I helped him with it.  He did a write up on one of the forums... I think it was on the ducati.ms one for the Sport Classic.  I'll see if I can find it and post a link.

[Desert Dust]

Thanks SD Rider. I'm about an hour and 1/2 from you in the hot, hot land of El Centro. Perhaps we'll meet on a twisty road some day in a much cooler land.

[uclabiker06]

I was under the impression that stb-bil only makes fuel stabilizer and that that is what the Ducati dealership wants to be put in the new fuel tanks to supposedly prevent expansion.  HOWEVER I think it is noteworthy to point out that Sta-bil makes Ethanol treatment which "Helps remove water".  Is this a new product by Sta-bil?  Is this what the dealership recommended to put in the tank or fuel stabilizer?  Anyways I'm coating my tank soon.  I think coating is a cheaper, more permanent, and cost effective solution, but was just wondering about this.  Apologies in advance if this has already been mentioned.

I don't see why this product wouldn't work:

[ducatiz]

Email them and ask if they have any independent testing showing the new color with the same MSDS works better.

Same stuff.  Both help the burn of ethanol and water.  Both are minerap spirits and naphtha.   Only one product has any independent testing showing it can help some with E10 crap..

I was under the impression that stb-bil only makes fuel stabilizer and that that is what the Ducati dealership wants to be put in the new fuel tanks to supposedly prevent expansion.  HOWEVER I think it is noteworthy to point out that Sta-bil makes Ethanol treatment which "Helps remove water".  Is this a new product by Sta-bil?  Is this what the dealership recommended to put in the tank or fuel stabilizer?  Anyways I'm coating my tank soon.  I think coating is a cheaper, more permanent, and cost effective solution, but was just wondering about this.  Apologies in advance if this has already been mentioned.

I don't see why this product wouldn't work: