Ducati Monster Forum

powered by:

January 06, 2025, 02:51:03 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Welcome to the DMF
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  



Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 11   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: The PCV with Autotune thread......  (Read 56235 times)
ungeheuer
ɹǝʌO d∩ uıɐןɐɹʇsn∀
Local Moderator
Post Whore
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 20826


Often wrong. Never in doubt.


WWW
« on: September 02, 2010, 03:20:57 AM »

This post began as a threadjacking elsewhere and so I reconstitued the following to get the ball rolling in a proper place of its own (much of the discussion so far is M696/M1100 related, but the thread is of course open to all Smiley):


....If M696/M1100 had reflashed ECU to delete the stock 02 inputs, who thinks it could be an idea to fit the Autotune option for PC5??  The Bosch wideband sensors could presumably fit right where your stock O2s just left from.... and since you'd be running free of the stock open loop you'd be running dynamic mapping managed by Autotune/PC5 throughout the entire range.  Problem is, you'd need 2x Autotune boxes which is expensive and I have no idea if PC5 can accept more than one Autotune input.  Unless the Harley-specific Dual Autotune could be adapted.......

Thoughts?


yeah i think Dynojet has an autotune setup for the 696. they had it available before the pc v was available. would be pretty silly if it only had one O2 sensor.

BUT... an email to confirm would be nice. I'll let you know what I hear.

kinda ticks me off I spent the money on an DP ECU now, but that's the problem with impatience.


Raux, Dynojet's Autotune option for PC5 listed for M696/M1100 is their universal SINGLE unit designed to sit in the exhaust at a point of mutual gas collection - in a stock system the obvious location would be in the "Y" midpipe.  Problem I see with this is that your gonna get some kinda average reading of the fueling results from both cylinders combined.  So theoretically, if one cylinder is horribly lean and the other is horribly rich..... the Autotune is gonna come to the "average" conclusion that the bike is running perfectly.   Me no like.

But.....  I did ask Dynojet about the possibility of fitting their Harley-specific Dual module Autotune to our Ducatis.  Here's the response I received:

You can use the Harley Auto-tune kit on any 2 cylinder bike with 2 fuel injectors. You would need to chop off the Harley style connector for power/ground and splice power and ground from somewhere on your bike. You might want to get the AT-100B Harley auto-tune kit if you want the kit to come with weld in 18mm bungs for the auto-tune o2 sensors.
 
Let me know if you have any further questions.

Regards,
 
Chris Kelly
Dynojet Research
2191 Mendenhall Dr. Suite 105
North Las Vegas, NV 89081


Encouraging indeed  Evil  Needless to say.... I do have further questions....  

I'll keep y'all posted  Grin

« Last Edit: September 02, 2010, 03:45:07 AM by ungeheuer » Logged

Ducati 1100S Monster Ducati 1260ST Multistrada + Moto Guzzi Griso 1200SE


Previously: Ducati1200SMultistradaDucatiMonster696DucatiSD900MotoMorini31/2
ungeheuer
ɹǝʌO d∩ uıɐןɐɹʇsn∀
Local Moderator
Post Whore
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 20826


Often wrong. Never in doubt.


WWW
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2010, 03:27:25 AM »

Had my mind set on the single 02 sensor autotune.....Have my local shop getting a price on one right now... then I hear this..... bang head

So....who wants to be the one who tries the Harley autotune?? [moto]
Looks like its gonna be me.....

.... I ordered an AT-100 Autotune kit yesterday.

Logged

Ducati 1100S Monster Ducati 1260ST Multistrada + Moto Guzzi Griso 1200SE


Previously: Ducati1200SMultistradaDucatiMonster696DucatiSD900MotoMorini31/2
Povidius
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 202


« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2010, 03:35:44 AM »

This should be good...  Grin
Logged
Drunken Monkey
Scooter-Trash
Flounder-Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3405



« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2010, 06:32:18 AM »

Keep us posted.

I'm personally bummed you can't get this set-up for the older PCs
Logged

I own several motorcycles. I have owned lots of motorcycles. And have bolted and/or modified lots of crap to said motorcycles...
Speeddog
West Valley Flatlander
Flounder-Administrator
Post Whore
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14813


RIP Nicky


« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2010, 06:48:55 AM »

Like to see how this works out.  drink
Logged

- - - - - Valley Desmo Service - - - - -
Reseda, CA

(951) 640-8908


~~~ "We've rearranged the deck chairs, refilled the champagne glasses, and the band sounds great. This is fine." - Alberto Puig ~~~
ungeheuer
ɹǝʌO d∩ uıɐןɐɹʇsn∀
Local Moderator
Post Whore
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 20826


Often wrong. Never in doubt.


WWW
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2010, 07:43:04 PM »

Steep learning curve ahead, I know.
Logged

Ducati 1100S Monster Ducati 1260ST Multistrada + Moto Guzzi Griso 1200SE


Previously: Ducati1200SMultistradaDucatiMonster696DucatiSD900MotoMorini31/2
Speeddog
West Valley Flatlander
Flounder-Administrator
Post Whore
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14813


RIP Nicky


« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2010, 08:54:18 PM »

Steep learning curve ahead, I know.

Somebody's got to get thrown under the bus.  cheeky
Logged

- - - - - Valley Desmo Service - - - - -
Reseda, CA

(951) 640-8908


~~~ "We've rearranged the deck chairs, refilled the champagne glasses, and the band sounds great. This is fine." - Alberto Puig ~~~
loopsrider
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 166



« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2010, 09:59:06 PM »

Looks like its gonna be me.....

.... I ordered an AT-100 Autotune kit yesterday.



 popcorn

Looks like it will end up being a winter project for me. Eager to hear how it works out for you!
Logged
Raux
Guest
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2010, 06:28:17 AM »

hey ungeheuer

once you get the map with autotune you can save it... send the autotune to me  Grin
Logged
ungeheuer
ɹǝʌO d∩ uıɐןɐɹʇsn∀
Local Moderator
Post Whore
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 20826


Often wrong. Never in doubt.


WWW
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2010, 12:28:29 AM »

hey ungeheuer
once you get the map with autotune you can save it... send the autotune to me  Grin
Once I get it sorted I think Povidius is gonna shout everybody a PCV+Autotune.  Maybe scoot him a PM  Wink laughingdp

OK so I realise that (one of) my first problem(s) is going to be coming up with target AFRs for the Autotune to aim for.  Especially since I have NFI.  There are very few PCV maps available for M1100 and none with any Autotune target AFR maps.  So I'm gonna have to input the AFRs manually (or find Autotune AFR target for something else - similar - and adapt those). 

My PCV is currently running mapping created by WASP for M1100 (with WASPkit and slipon cans) on their Dyno - it runs pretty well, so that will be my base map. WASP's mapping of course has no values for the closed loop area coz - they're allowing the stock Lambdas + PCV's o2 Optimizers to take care of that section, which according to the PCV documentation is aiming at a 13.6:1 AFR.  So in the "cruise" zone (under 20% throttle and 4500rpm) I'm guessing I can use that 13.6:1 as my starting point.  But beyond there......  I'm unsure. 

So..... does anybody have any idea what I should be aiming for with AFRs?? 

Logged

Ducati 1100S Monster Ducati 1260ST Multistrada + Moto Guzzi Griso 1200SE


Previously: Ducati1200SMultistradaDucatiMonster696DucatiSD900MotoMorini31/2
Raux
Guest
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2010, 01:02:47 AM »

Saw this quote from Dynojet Research on another forum after a quick search...
Ususally around 13.1-13.3 will deliver best peak performance. Sometimes going as rich as 12.8 can deliver better throttle response thru the midrange

and I'm seeing 13.2 as a good starting point as well on other searches

so 13.2 across the board and maybe slowing towards 12.8 on higher throttle and rpm


Logged
ungeheuer
ɹǝʌO d∩ uıɐןɐɹʇsn∀
Local Moderator
Post Whore
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 20826


Often wrong. Never in doubt.


WWW
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2010, 01:13:13 AM »

Thanks Raux - yup my homework seems to throw up 13.2:1 as the most popular number too..........
Logged

Ducati 1100S Monster Ducati 1260ST Multistrada + Moto Guzzi Griso 1200SE


Previously: Ducati1200SMultistradaDucatiMonster696DucatiSD900MotoMorini31/2
Raux
Guest
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2010, 01:15:35 AM »

here's a real good read

http://www.fi2000r.com/page.php?page=41
Logged
ducpainter
The Often Hated
Flounder-Administrator
Post Whore
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 78887


DILLIGAF


« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2010, 01:17:55 AM »

Does the autotune feature look for a set of user defined parameters?
Logged

"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent.”


Raux
Guest
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2010, 01:24:31 AM »

Does the autotune feature look for a set of user defined parameters?

yes, it has a chart just like the PC V.
but instead of fuel percentages. it is looking for AFR. it then sends a signal to the PC V to adjust the map fuel percentages to match that target AFR.
It will continue to adjust until it has reached all throttle position/rpm combinations from what I understand. After that it stops adjusting.
What I would like to know is... does that now mean you can grab that new map. save it. pull the Autotune and o2 sensors it has. and use the new map it created.
or does it erase the map when you remove it?

Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 11   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Simple Audio Video Embedder
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
SimplePortal 2.1.1