No start

[JoshuaCJCohen]

I've seen videos of people using apple cider vinegar to clean out the rust.  Before I do any rust removal I assume I'll have to take out all electronics and tubes to prevent destruction of the wiring.  I was going to try the same on the cap base and see how that works.  I'll be sure to take lots of pictures when I get there.

What do you mean by coating the tank?  Finding a welder shouldn't be too difficult but the hinge looks to be in good shape and is solidly mounted.

[ducpainter]

The hinge plate is just spot welded to the tank floor, and then the hinge is mig welded to the plate.

The spot welds are notorious for cracking and causing leaks. The fix is to braze around the perimeter of the hinge plate. If done correctly the paint damage won't show with the seat installed.

After brazing I recommend that the tank be coated with POR-15. That will eliminate your rust issue for good.

http://www.por15.com/CYCLE-TANK-REPAIR-KIT/productinfo/CTRK/

[JoshuaCJCohen]

Got the cap base off.  When it popped off (with the help of a claw foot hammer) dust exploded all over the top of the gas tank.  I'm imagining plenty went inside too.  Picture to follow.

Pulled the tubes off the base so I can soak it and try to clean it.  Started putting my hands in to remove the filter and eventually get to the fuel pump and the whole inside that is dry is coated in dust.  It is nasty.  I've read the other topics about working in the gas tank and I don't understand how you can work in there.  I'm not a big man, 5'10" and 195lbs, but I can barely move my hands around.  Is there a secret I don't know or is the name of the game crushed hands?

[ducpainter]

There is just barely enough room.

You need to push the pump up out of it's bracket and then out. Put your hand in with your palm facing up and use your fingers to push up on the pump.

Some times it's painful.

[JoshuaCJCohen]

Ok,
Success!  Sort of.

Lets start with cap off and dust everywhere.

Dust

Better look with the rust and grime from the o-rings.

Dust Rust Str8Up Nasty

I'm trying to get to the leads to the fuel pump but so luck with all the crap in the way so I start unscrewing clamps and removing hoses.  Every time I touch the dry top of the tank my hand is coated in dust.  And anything that has been submerged in gas is coated in mud.  I get the pump loose and walla!

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Yeah, that filter thing at the bottom of the pump is 85% clogged with mud and grit.  You can't see it because the pic is out of focus but there is mud in every gap. And the tubing connecting the pump and filter is deteriorating and falling apart.

Test the leads and I've got 12Volts until the relay resets.  Great.  I plug the pump in just to see what happens and nothing.  So either the pump is bad, clogged with grit and fried or the battery is toast under load.  I'm going with option #1 or #2 which amounts to the same thing.

At this point I know the tank needs a complete overhaul so I take it off.  While standing up on hinge getting the last of the fuel out I take a look inside and see the 1/4 to 1/2 inch of mud at the bottom. 

Mud

Here is the last of the gas I siphoned off. I'm assuming that is water with grit and rust.

Water with grit

Get the tank off and proceed to carefully remove the sending unit.  Don't know when it happened, but when I got it out there was a tiny tear in the insulation on the ground wire.  I might have done it or it might have come out that way.  Don't know.  Notice the mud on the unit and if you look closely, you can see a shiny part on the ground wire right where it comes out of the unit.

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I've got a filter on order.  Need to order a pump.  I'm going to test the pump wires on the sending unit and see if it still works.  If so then I'll epoxy the ground wire as I know the sending unit is good.  Need to prep and seal the tank and put it all back together again.  Might as well replace the tubes while everything is out and apart.  Does the tubing need to be certain diameter?  I'm assuming so but I don't know what dimensions are required for the different hoses.

This is the first time I've done this so I'm sure I'm missing something important.  What am I not thinking of or what question should I be asking you?

Thanks

[ducpainter]

You need to use special submersible hose from the pump to filter and the filter to the tube. The short small diameter hoses not so.

SAE 30R10 specification and is capable of handling gasoline, alcohol-extended gasoline or diesel fuel in fully immersed, mobile, stationary and marine applications. It is available in 5/16” and 3/8” IDs with a working pressure rating of 100 psi.

You need 5/16' diameter.

Standard fuel line will not last.

NAPA sells it, but I believe it's made by Gates.

[Speeddog]

It's a miracle the bike ran.

Be careful with the small rubber vent hoses, they're not very robust.

California Cycleworks has an inexpensive pump.

[SpikeC]

 I don't understand why he had trouble starting. All of that stuff should be able to burn at some point......

[suzyj]

I don't understand why he had trouble starting. All of that stuff should be able to burn at some point......

Probably battery. 

[JoshuaCJCohen]

While I'm waiting for parts and other items should I clean the tank out and the fuel sender off? Is it safe to use water on them?  My plan is to just wash the fuel sender off and use water to get the mass amounts of mud out of the tank, then soak it in apple cider vinegar in prep for the POR-15.  Or am I only going to make it harder on myself in the long run?

Regarding the smaller hoses, do they not  have to be SAE 30R10 spec because they aren't submerged all the time?  Would it be better to just use the sturdy line instead?  And you were right, the hose that connected to the cap base drain was kinked.  When previous owner put the aftermarket cap on he turned the cap around and the hose ran across the bump in the tank pinching it off.

Thanks,
Josh

[ducpainter]

While I'm waiting for parts and other items should I clean the tank out and the fuel sender off? Is it safe to use water on them?  My plan is to just wash the fuel sender off and use water to get the mass amounts of mud out of the tank, then soak it in apple cider vinegar in prep for the POR-15.  Or am I only going to make it harder on myself in the long run?

Regarding the smaller hoses, do they not  have to be SAE 30R10 spec because they aren't submerged all the time?  Would it be better to just use the sturdy line instead?  And you were right, the hose that connected to the cap base drain was kinked.  When previous owner put the aftermarket cap on he turned the cap around and the hose ran across the bump in the tank pinching it off.

Thanks,
Josh

The POR kit has everything you need to clean the junk out. Water and vinegar will do no harm, but it's an unnecessarily step.

The Marine Clean will also clean the old pump screen and the sender...just save some before or after.

The small hoses don't need to be the same spec because they are not pressurized.

Make sure the metal tubes in the tank are clear. You can check with compressed air. I've had success clearing blocked tubes with the acid in the kit and some mig wire twisted with safety wire pliers to stiffen it. Do it before you do your POR process.

It can be tedious.

[suzyj]

Apple cider vinegar has a lot of stuff in it that isn't acetic acid.

If it was my tank, I'd swish some phosphoric acid around it. That'll turn the iron oxide to iron phosphate, which is stable.

[ducpainter]

Apple cider vinegar has a lot of stuff in it that isn't acetic acid.

If it was my tank, I'd swish some phosphoric acid around it. That'll turn the iron oxide to iron phosphate, which is stable.

That's the acid included in the POR kit.

[JoshuaCJCohen]

Apple cider vinegar has a lot of stuff in it that isn't acetic acid.

If it was my tank, I'd swish some phosphoric acid around it. That'll turn the iron oxide to iron phosphate, which is stable.

Will phosphoric acid stabilize it enough that the POR-15 wont be required?  I'd rather not wait a month for that stuff to arrive if I don't have to.

[ducpainter]

Will phosphoric acid stabilize it enough that the POR-15 wont be required?  I'd rather not wait a month for that stuff to arrive if I don't have to.

The acid alone won't prevent it from reoccurring.