Ducati Monster Forum

http://www.ducatinewstoday.com/2011/02/jhp-racing-ducati-2-valve-superbike/ (http://www.ducatinewstoday.com/2011/02/jhp-racing-ducati-2-valve-superbike/)


Sons of pregnant doges beat me to it by a longshot.  I want one bad.




(http://www.ducatinewstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Ducati_1088RS.jpg)
(http://www.ducatinewstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Screen_shot_2011-02-09_at_2.10.17_PM.jpg)
(http://www.ducatinewstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Screen_shot_2011-02-09_at_2.12.16_PM1.jpg)

From Ducati News Today (http://www.ducatinewstoday.com)

FCD partnership ( that owns this bike ) posted to our local club list the pics and specs of this bike a week or so ago and this has been a project in the making with Hackett ( who is a good personal friend of FCD) for a couple years with design as well as execution of this build and it will supposedly be shipped across the pond for to appear at the Ducati event being set up at Barber as well as a few shakedown trackdays with fellow club members...

I made the pictures bigger.

Things I like about it: The subframe and seat are one piece.
The pierobon frame looks awesome.

Things I'm curious about: I thought the supersport style rear suspension was inferior to the linkage suspension on the superbikes.

If you are going to blow the budget, and build something outlandish, I would think you would use Sicom rotors or something else outlandish - the calipers are updates (billet calipers, can't tell if they are the monoblocs or not), and even teh forks are gas charged, custom designed fairings, but just run of the mill Brembo HP rotors, like the ones sitting in the display cabinet at AMS for the average track nut.

And custom designed fairings... by Sharkskinz? Are they carbon, carbon kevlar, or just fiberglass (woven cloth they call it on the sharkskinz website). Cool to use a product from the USA, but the likes of CM Composit and may others are in JHP's backyard.


Enough 'criticism', because I give this a 9.5 on the "things I dig" scale.

In a very serious tone, and if somebody will read this that has the power to make it happen, hear me now, I would be interested in a kit form.


Say frame, subframe, swingarm, tank, and bodywork

i believe you can order the first four items directly from pierobon (or their us distributor, boulder motorsports).

I hadn't seen the subframe available before, and they mention that the swingarm is modified.

Suppose making the bodywork, such as the front fairing, as simple as using a 1098 style front fairing stay?

How many posts will we get before some num nut say it would better if it had a SSS [roll]

Looks like a variation on the multipart construction of the d16rr arm. I do wonder what the weight comparison between that and a mag corse style arm would be.

Are you aware of the Kämna V2 Demon? 125kg/125bhp  8)

I emailed the owner of the bike and he'll chime in with some answers...

can anyone tell me what that spring/shock combo is under the front of the frame in one of those pictures?

How does this differ from the Boulder Motorsports F042 2V Superbike?

 http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=46084.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=46084.0)

Looks like pretty much the same thing.

that looks awesome

Oh yes. It too is awesome.


Supersport style Ohlins with piggyback reservoir, likely custom built (ohlins does that), and the forks are the Ohlins gas charged.


What? They share part of the frame, but this one has a modified frame, i believe a modified swingarm, 1088 cc instead of 1123 cc, 120 hp instead of 133 hp, different fairings, functional ram air, higher spec suspension while coming in at the same weight, integrated larger oil cooler into lower fairings like superbikes instead of mounted like a standard monster/hyper, low mount exhaust instead of high mount, different seat and subframe

so kind of a lot, actually.

Hello all,
I'm Douglas Frederick of Frederick Cederna Design. Brian Z. was kind enough to let me know there were a few questions circulating with respect to the 1088. It has been a long while since I've posted on here, however Ann Cederna and I owe our roots to a Ducati Monster & 900 SS/SP that we drove all over the West.

We did have a budget to work with, and admittedly we don't have top spec components for all details. The goal was to provide a kit that others could scope up or scope down.

The fairings, seat & tank are entirely Frederick Cederna Design and were fabricated at Sharkskinz in Florida. The process took 5 months, but allowed us to develop and include improvements. We worked the shapes, shaved them down with Sharkskinz, went back to the drawing board, worked them some more, etc. The side fairings & seat are in fiber-glass at present. The next gen seat would be all carbon fiber. The tank is carbon kevlar fuel cel by FuelCel ETI. In the process, we made sure the tank was large enough to include a 1098 fuel pump. The tank buck was shaved down at Sharkskinz, and then sent to Dave at FuelCel for production. It was during this bodywork process that we cut the rear cylinder vents in the side fairings, lowered and placed the enlarged 'V' oil cooler, and created the air ducts and airbox. The entire rolling chassis and stock DS1000 engine was then packaged off to JHP Racing and John/Rick Hackett for their development and further design (read magic). While Ann & I (with inputs from Chris Edwards) evolved the bodywork and several improvements, the Hacketts must take the credit for the bike. I couldn't say it enough, JHP Racing brought top-notch engineering, experience, and innovation to this effort. We also exchanged regularly with the Hacketts for recommendations during the dev process.

Of the entire F042 kit, the only parts remaining are the frame. Nothing else is part of the original kit. The rear sub-frame is integrated within the seat (currently aluminum but to be replaced in CF), and the front sub-frame is carbon fiber (a derivative of the 998RS sub-frame). We decided in February 2010 that the swing-arm wasn't good enough and went back to Pierobon to provide an improved swing-arm. This added 8 months to the process. We new at the time that to also add a rising rate suspension would have incurred even longer development times.

We're working on a website (www.1088RS.com (http://) - note nothing posted yet) and hope to have something posted soon. We would like to offer a limited run of race or road versions (we wouldn't provide homogation or titles). When we launch the website, we'll include a poll/question page asking if people would be interested in the 1088. The kit would require a donor engine and could source many parts from a 1000DS. The level of spec could be done at the owner's preference. Thanks to the folks below for venturing your thoughts on this - we are very interested in knowing if there is interest or demand.

We look forward to hearing from you folks. I'm trying to include a few images below - if this doesn't work I'll give it another go.
Douglas Ann

(http://C:\Documents and Settings\dfrederick\My Documents\Douglas Personal\Ducati\F042\Built Bike\February 2 Showtime\Small\Preferred Views\Side View MCN 02 10 CPRT Small.jpg)

(http://C:\Documents and Settings\dfrederick\My Documents\Douglas Personal\Ducati\F042\Built Bike\February 2 Showtime\Small\Preferred Views\Front Side View 02 V01 CPRT Small.jpg)

Awesome! [thumbsup]

You need to host them somewhere before you can post them online.  Try the link below
FAQ: Positng pics  (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=109.0)

Bike looks great =)

fixed it for ya Douglas!

and for everyone else, here's a link to the gallery that hosts some additional pics from the MCN Carol Nash show where the bike made its' debut...

http://www.mad-ducati.com/GalleryShowTN.php?GalleryId=788 (http://www.mad-ducati.com/GalleryShowTN.php?GalleryId=788)

If you look on this page there is a shock/spring under the front part of the frame
A M mentioned something, but I wasn't referring to the swingarm shock or fork.

http://www.ducaticoventry.com/jhp-projects.php (http://www.ducaticoventry.com/jhp-projects.php)

I understand what shock you are seeing now - thanks for the clarification. This is simply because the image cropping wasn't done well enough. Someone at JHP forgot to clip out a shock from a bike in the background. There is no shock on the front. I'll alert JHP.

Exactly what I'm thinking. Ive already got the 1k DS and could seriously consider this for a winter project next year.

I would be extremely interested.  Extremely.

I am also very interested!  [thumbsup]

Seems to me that the parts kit 'must' contain:

Frame, Swingarm+axle+rear caliper mount, Rear Subframe/Tail, Front Subframe, Fairings & Air Runners, Airbox, and instruction as to which:
- triple clamp fits (748/749/848 style - non. adj head stems versus 916-996-998-999-1098-1198 adj. head stems) (so you can pick your triple clamps allowing for different offsets and fork diameters)
- Steering damper placement, length, or which bike's damper will also work (making it easy to source from a variety of aftermarket options)
- Shock length and ends, or as above, which bike has a similar part you could use
- Rear wheel style (999 or S4/M1000 or 696 width, axle, sprocket bolt pattern, disc carrier etc)

seems like that would about do it. leaving the person to pick the wheels, forks, brakes, motor, electronics, etc from any number of places or manufacturers leaving lots of options for customization and budgetary constraints.

That. . .

so bad ass.

I wish Ducati would just bite it and start making killer 2v bikes.

I want that so bad, I'd push a homeless man into traffic for one.

I would like to know more about the exhaust system.

I'll put my hand up for that Duty!

I think it would look Better with a Singled Sided Swingarm!  [thumbsup]

thats because everything looks better with a SSS ;)  haha

If it were a braced design spec'd via FEA analysis and made of magnesium, sure. this beast is all about function first, hence working ram air

Thank you for the support here for the 1088RS. It's very useful to note suggestions here about what the kit should include as this helps us with a point of departure. Would people be interested in sending their engines and required bits from a 1000DS to JHP, and having it returned to them completely assembled?

I also wanted to add a few words about Sharkskinz and ETI fuel Cel. Sharkskinz is a class act. The fit & finish of their bodywork was exemplary. While we often lean toward CF for it's strength or aesthetic, on bodywork fiber-glass is typically lighter. The Hacketts several times commented on the exceptional finish on Sharkskinz bodywork, and I'm right behind them. Additionally, Sharkskinz are great people and very customer conscious. We paid for Sharkskinz time on the project on a time & materials basis - i.e. they didn't sponsor this effort. We elected to include the Sharkskinz logo because of their exceptional contribution to the 1088, not because we were asked to. Sharkskinz is a great outfit, and ETI no less. I don't know of anyone that makes a better fuel cel than ETI. THe Europeans frequently use ETI tanks as well. We were remiss in not including the ETI logo but will revise. ETI knows their trade. Talk to them about angle of fuel delivery, depth of tank, internal clearances, tank foam, etc. See http://www.eti-fuelcel.com/ (http://www.eti-fuelcel.com/)

I wanted to respond to a question above about the exhaust. The entire exhaust is titanium and was developed by someone who plyed his trade learning racing exhausts (2-wheel & 4-wheel). The welds, radiuses, tube sizing, are exceptional and spot-on. Exhaust images are included below. This should give a view of the quality of the exhaust work. Let me know what you think - I would be interested to know.

(http://www.mad-ducati.com/Gallery/dfrederick/G788/DSCF2268.JPG)
(http://www.mad-ducati.com/Gallery/dfrederick/G788/DSCF2269.JPG)
(http://www.mad-ducati.com/Gallery/dfrederick/G788/DSCF2271.JPG)
(http://www.mad-ducati.com/Gallery/dfrederick/G788/DSCF2276.JPG)

very nice Douglas....I assume the plugged bungs are there for sensor tuning or if you have a motor still using sensors (though I can't imagine why) ?

The exhaust bends and welds look fantastic.

The exhaust might also need to be a part of the 'package' as it may be difficult for a person to find someone who can fab it up local to them.


As far as shipping the parts all to JHP for a 'final assembly' - I would predict that some people would do this (especially those in Europe), but I also foresee people in the US possibly foregoing this option (either the do-it-yourself-er or using one of the regional ducati race outfits like DucPond, DucShop, Boulder Motorsports, etc that they may be familiar with)


so the sharkskinz in fiberglass are lighter than the carbon fiber equivalent - thoughts as to how they fair with respect crash worthiness compared to carbon?   I suppose I've never held two identical pieces of bodywork before where one was carbon and one was fiberglass to compare weights

I agree on the overseas shipping could be a bit cost prohibitive, or at least push the envelope of someone's budget.

if THESE Sharkskins are anything like their other skins, I would assume them to be very crashworthy...not that you aim to crash or anything...but I have known a few racers who've scuffed some shark skin fairings on repeated occasions without a need for to replace, just paint repair or a lil mending.

I'd prefer just a kit was available so I could build it myself. Smart move is to probably offer a home assembly and a JHP assembly option. [thumbsup]

The only other thing I can conceivably think of that would make it really straightforward for the DIY'er is a spec-built or modified factory wiring harness.  Whether factory style wiring harnesses are modified or wiring harnesses are done up to spec, I would think it would be pretty much the basic wiring with factory style plugs for the ECU / fuse area, starter circuit, gauges, etc but would omit the 'street legal' parts (since the frames don't come vin'd) like the lights, coffee cup warmer, horn, signals, etc.

That would allow the "mild" build(er) to use an essentially stock motor with a DP ECU, or the person who is interested in doing a "wild" build with cams and all that jazz, they would have the convenience of plugging up a microtech or nemesis and doing the custom map routine.

I'm sure there's some looney toon out there that wants to ditch the starter to save even more weight and have to use a starter-cart everytime but that's not for me. i do like some of the features of the 'road bikes', that's for sure.

+1 That would have to be in a kit for the DIYer.  [thumbsup]

it would also be very nice if it was made from good quality beefy wiring too (i'd rather it weigh slightly more but be made of good, high strand flexible wire than the stuff normally equipped by... almost all OEMs).

kinda like deans wire, wet noodles and such.

Frame/swingarm, and tank/fairing/seat/tail.  Nothing else needed here.  I was THIS CLOSE to dropping some coin on Kaemna stuff, but would like to hear what you think the "kit" might cost.  Last time I checked on the pierbon frame it was over 4500 alone....and not street legal/no vin.

should be able to register it as a special construction.

i've got crayons and a calculator if you want to figure out some good numbers to mark it with.

AFAIK, your local DMV will tell you what to do.

They dont got as many color crayons as me.

   Beautiful bike, very well done!

    The only negative is on the exhaust. People like to see those pretty colors on Titanium, but it should not look like that if welded correctly. It shows a lack of gas shielding and is more prone to crack. The inside of the tube should be purged with Argon also.

 [coffee]

I'd be happy with a 90hp/350lb power to weight ratio. That is a very effective street bike.
A 120hp/300lb power to weight ratio is the stuff dreams are made of. [drool]

the F042 is street legal. that's what this bike is based on.

Hmm... They have changed the F042 website - I was going to link to the "track" version which is not street legal, but it has been taken down, it now only lists the F042 "hstreet"

What do you think about starting with a latest generation SBK with a blown engine?  That way you have your rolling chassis and don't have to worry about your title & registration.  The problem is finding something like that before somebody gets it and parts it out.  

(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm21/JonTravisKing/Misc/848_Chassis.jpg?t=1298165751)
When I see the above picture I want to make a naked bike in the style of Radical Ducati's bikes with a pumped up air-cooled engine, V-Rod headlight, and cool wasp-like tail section.  The tank looks good as is from this angle.

Thats what I did, although I used a 749R. [thumbsup]

what was your final weight?

i think the biggest "problem" with a stock roller is expecting it to weigh >100lbs less than a superbike w/o the radiator. add to that pairing it w/ a less powerful motor, and it seems like a fun, but ultimately disappointing (performance-wise) , project.

the 749 era bike is heavier than the 848 era bike if I remember right.

A lot of that weight was lost in the engine cases.

true, but there was a minimal drop in the frame weight, because I seem to recall it being a thinner walled tube, IIRC....

Isn't the intent to get a 2V bike close to the weight of the JHP bike?

I don't think that will happen using a stock frame of any era unless other drastic weight saving measures are employed.

As you get closer to the 300 lb number it gets harder...and more expensive.

very true...and the materials used in the F042 frame as well as others is a lighter material to start with...

Yeah, I was going to mention that the pierobon frame is lighter, as are NCR frames, the Alu frame shown on Motowheels, and the carbon frame from Bike Research.

I'll be happy to get to 340lbs with what I'm spending.

The goal at this point is to get it on the road/track, and develop it as I go.  Since I don't have anywhere near an unlimited budget, I want to prove a concept (for myself) before I invest a boatload of money to make it super light.

No point in me spending 5-6K in lightweight stuff when I might not have another 2-3k to make it actually run....then I end up with a bunch of cool parts sitting on a non-running bike.

This way, I've got the bike, it runs, runs well, and I can "add lightness" as my budget will allow (BST's, CMC rotors, monocoque seat, etc.).  If I could give up budgeting for the multi or dievel (oh god..I have to ride it before I buy the mts1200), I think I could run out and snag every cool part off the shelf.  Still, I want a new bike, and that multi has had my mind wrapped around it in a big way for a long time.

decisions decisions....MTS1200, ride all day everyday.  Or 2v sbk, wear myself out after 3 hours riding in the mountains.....

Maybe the gym is in order... ;D

Not so much the gym.....being 6'5" has many advantages.  Fitting correctly for extended periods on time on a SBK anything isn't one of them :D


No final weight at this point Derby....I haven't got all the bits on the thing yet  [thumbsup]

i see what you did there, with the invisible finger pointing! Touche'

no no!  That wasn't intended, please don't take it that way. 

I've been down the road I described MANY times, I just won't let it happen again.

i know, and no offense taken!  kind of a tongue in cheek thing over here for me seeing in the garage!

It would be alive and running by now had I not invested in a real heap of a 900 to practice my fixxer-upper skills.

My 1098 R weighs 363 lbs. dry @ 175 RWHP w, full race Termi and DP ECU

That's 2.07 lbs. per 1 hp

The JHP bike is 2.5 lbs. per 1 hp

I bet the JHP bike costs more than my R cost new ,which was MSRP $40,000 +tax and fees.

Dolph    :)

Out of curiosity have you verified that weight?  ;)

It's more fun to ride a slow bike fast, than a fast bike slow.

No,

I take Ducati's word on that.

Dolph       [moto]

Who rides a fast bike slow ?

Dolph     [moto]     

more people than you'd imagine. (but they simply "NEED" that much power!)

I'm sure there are those that can't put that much power to good use ....I'm not one of them.

I ride to the edge ...not sayin' there aren't faster riders on the road.

Dolph     [moto]

Wet weight, we don't drive them dry. 1 gallon of gas weighs (6lbs) 4qts of oil (?) plus battery. Now do the math.

Isn't the JHP bike weight quoted Dry ?

Dolph     [moto]

knowing Douglas the way I do, if it is "dry", that means without gas in it, otherwise ready to go.

You should try to get a real world weight. I'm not bagging on your R...it is definitely a light bike. But Ducati is very optimistic in their weights (as Cycleworld proved with the MTS1200 recently), and their definition of dry likely doesn't even include a battery being in the bike.

Besides all that, I'd still take a 120hp 320lb (wet) bike over a 170 hp 400 lb (wet) bike. It should be significantly quicker handling due to the much lower weight.  [thumbsup]

also, you can make a fat bike scoot w/ more power, but you can't hide that weight from the brakes.

The manufacturers are very optimistic about their weight and hp/torque ratings.  I like Motorcycle Consumer News because they do their own measurements. They have an 2008 1098S listed at 434 lbs wet with 138 rwhp.
http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/articles/2010JanIndex.pdf (http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/articles/2010JanIndex.pdf)

I agree - its an unfortunate "keeping up with the joneses" where one manufacturer starts weighing them with no gas, another follows suit, the third ups the ante by draining the oil too, then they are doing more of the same: omitting the battery, filling the tires with helium, putting washers under the scale plate.

No offense intended Dolph, but if you believe you can fully take advantage of what a 1098r has to offer, you either are delirious, or should be actively racing (and winning).

The 2vsbk (for me) is to have fun building something as light as I can on a reasonable budget that will give me a fun track/mountain toy as well. At the current rate it's going, I'll have about as much into it as a used 848, while hopefully being a ton more fun. At least at my level of riding ;)

I can't speak for Dolph, but I think he was saying he appreciates the additional performance, not that he can use every last iota of it.

I'm quicker on a 600 than an SV, but there are guys on both that can leave me for dead :)

you forget about sentimental value / sweat equity.   that more than makes the difference in price put in versus performance extracted to me.

was just about to post this as the main reason to do a bike like this too...

nothing quite makes you appreciate something as much as putting the blood/sweat/tears into it yourself.

of course, it makes it also virtually impossible to let go when/if you ever need to too

Easy to sell a bike that you simply bought and rode for awhile. If you have to polish and massage a turd to get it to run, and are successful in such a venture, it becomes part of the family. And selling it is rarely a good deal financially - you'll never get out what you put into one over the years... It becomes somewhat like guns, you always regret selling one. (only with guns, you get nearly what you paid for it when you do sell it)


i put a lot of time and busted knuckles into my Monster. I'm doing the same with this fixxer-upper M900, and the project is just that: Something that *I* built (sure, using the plans and designs of a manufacturer essentially, but i did it!) for me. There's something more in that to me. Even if it is slower for the same dollar, and doesn't come with a warranty.

My 1098 R may not weigh exactly 363 dry just because Ducati says it does.....but

I can tell you this.

A 1098 R was Dynoed w,a Dynojet 250 w, the Full race Termignoni Exhaust and DP ECU which is what I have on mine at 176 RWHP I was told in '09 by the Ducshop.

Also, the 1098 R has the Front brakes to stop a Freight Train !

Dolph     [moto]

Sure, I can't ride it like Troy could ride it ....but there are times when I have the throttle wide open.

That's when it's worth the price of admission...when it's accelerating so hard I can barely hold on !

85 mph -125 mph on 2 lane country roads... I'd say is a pretty fair pace , especially w, lots of corners.

I'm even faster on my S 1000 RR.

That bike out handles the 1098 R.    :o

Dolph      [moto]

boo the blasphemer!

Burn him!

Say ten hail marrys and do a tack day and the mob will put down the pitchforks.

what? i will not waste a good, already lit torch just because he mumbles for a few minutes!

Variety...the spice of Life  !

Hey a m, it handles better than the " R " ....is pretty much as quick as the " R "....the " R " is faster in the the 1st 3 gears, ...but the S 1000 RR will out run the " R " on the top end.

It only cost $17 K for all the 180 + RWHP, handling, electronics,( traction control, ABS ) adjustable forks and shock, brembos and BMW reliability plus a 3 year warranty.

They are both a BLAST  !

Dolph   [moto]   

burn the heretic!

that said, the bmw is pretty appealing. suppose the guy who designed the left side ever met the guy who designed the right side?   [cheeky]  only having fun at the Bavarian's expense.... we can resume scheduled programming (since Dolph didn't build his own S1000RR!)

Burn him  ;D
 
monty python-witch scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp_l5ntikaU#normal)

You can burn me if you can catch me out on the road !

Dolph     (http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn198/DoubleEagle_photo/yahoo.gif)

LOL- that might be difficult. I'll have to stake (pun intended) out the gas stations and catch you when you're refueling  [evil]

a titanium lance ala jousting style with a burred magnesium head for to have lit whilst you chase him down and poke him off his pedestal should do just the trick

Wow, that is sick. I would race the hell out of that bike. It's nice but I'm sure way too expensive to put together a race program for. I can collect a lot of trophies on much cheaper bikes.

But, dang that is nice.
 [beer]

Only counts if you can track me down at speed and over take me !       (http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn198/DoubleEagle_photo/yahoo.gif)

Dolph

  To you I say ....(http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn198/DoubleEagle_photo/moon.gif)

Dolph