Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates

[Bill in OKC]

So IF it is approved:

1. The law firm cashes in.
2. Ducati's liability will have a defined boundary/cost.
3. Owners with freshly fouled tanks will be SOL in 18 months.
4. Uninvolved/unaware owners get the door shut in their face because of something they had nothing to do with.
5. All plastic tanked Ducati values drop by half+.
6. Plastic Ducatis gather dust as the supply of good tanks runs out.

It looks (to me) like the law firm was in reality fighting for Ducati instead of the plaintiffs.  Corporations generally do not like having open-ended liabilities like this hanging over their heads.

[DRKWNG]

I cannot say what effect the objections will have.  There were a paltry number and Girard Gibbs made a point of that in their response to the objections, specifically pointing out that I have over 400 people signed up the Yahoo group, but "only" got 15 people to send in their objections.  It's a valid point.  If you can't get off your ass to send in a pre-filled out form to me....

Pretty much confirms my thoughts that (on average) people in the states are lazy sacks of shit.

[The Bearded Duc]

Pretty much confirms my thoughts that (on average) people in the states are lazy sacks of shit.

[ducatiz]

Pretty much confirms my thoughts that (on average) people in the states are lazy sacks of shit.

ben is filled with the milk, nay.. the CREAM of human lovingkindness...lol

[Ak1nza]

I've followed this thread since April of last year when I bought my S2R 800.  I didn't know of the expanding tank issue before I bought it and only learned of it because I saw that the tank wasn't sitting on the rubber stops.  I was pretty disappointed when I found out it was an issue with the tank being plastic.  Anyways I signed up for the Yahoo board as soon as I found out and I also submitted my objection to Ducatiz.  Some people may have been lazy or thought that the next guy was going to object and that there would have been enough people, but the bottom line is we aren't where we are if it wasn't for Ducatiz.  

Anyways, I got my replacement tank under warranty pretty quick after I learned of the issue.  I also had the dealer coat the brand new tank with the Caswell prior to it going on my bike.  I haven't had any issues with expansion on the new tank and the dealer has done dozens of them and told me they haven't seen any issues after coating even after years so I'm hoping I won't have to think about the tank for a long time.

Whatever the result tomorrow, just wanted to say Thanks Ducatiz.  

[Frisco]

I've followed this thread since April of last year when I bought my S2R 800.  I didn't know of the expanding tank issue before I bought it and only learned of it because I saw that the tank wasn't sitting on the rubber stops.  I was pretty disappointed when I found out it was an issue with the tank being plastic.  Anyways I signed up for the Yahoo board as soon as I found out and I also submitted my objection to Ducatiz.  Some people may have been lazy or thought that the next guy was going to object and that there would have been enough people, but the bottom line is we aren't where we are if it wasn't for Ducatiz.  

Anyways, I got my replacement tank under warranty pretty quick after I learned of the issue.  I also had the dealer coat the brand new tank with the Caswell prior to it going on my bike.  I haven't had any issues with expansion on the new tank and the dealer has done dozens of them and told me they haven't seen any issues after coating even after years so I'm hoping I won't have to think about the tank for a long time.

Whatever the result tomorrow, just wanted to say Thanks Ducatiz.  

How many years has this been going on?  How long have they been coating tanks?  I thought that was a recent discovery?

[Frisco]

the replacement tank will have a 6 month warranty

what if you already have a replacement tank? I thought the warranty went for 18 months afterwards - i.e- if I have a problem next Jan since I got my replacement before the settlement I should be able to get another and then 6 months after that> Or are you saying that the 6 months started when I got my last replacement? this is the 3rd for this bike

[DRKWNG]

How many years has this been going on?  How long have they been coating tanks?  I thought that was a recent discovery?

I've been dealing with this on my '06 SC (just had its 4th tank installed) for over four years.

[DRKWNG]

ben is filled with the milk, nay.. the CREAM of human lovingkindness...lol

Pretty much.  But seriously, why else wouldn't people take the time to do something about it.  Hell, you did 99% of the legwork for us.  People were quick to arms with protests of the original issue, and the proposed settlement, but didn't want to stop watching Jersey Shore long enough to fax a form?

[hillbillypolack]

Iz-
   Keep us posted on the outcome.  I'm certain you will.  Just for trivial information, all three parties ought to have received my objection to the original settlement;  not sure if it was one of the 25-30 you noted.

Regardless, I'm not optimistic on any real fix by the sound of what's been posted to date (in the entire 140+ page thread).  Time will tell.

[MsTek]

I must have done something wrong...

I need to get a new tank- mine is starting to have issues and when I spoke to the dealer, they basically shrugged.  What do I do?

[ducatiz]

I must have done something wrong...

I need to get a new tank- mine is starting to have issues and when I spoke to the dealer, they basically shrugged.  What do I do?

go to another dealer or call DNA and complain.

[ducatiz]

I've gone thru the declarations in support of the settlement that were filed so far.

I really wish Ducati had released some of the technical testing they had done instead of making everyone (me) flounder about and waste time...

So they (Acerbis) did in fact test Caswells (using 100% ethanol and temperature cycling) and found that it separated.  I don't have any information as to the validity of the testing (i.e. how did they apply it, was it a new tank, why did they choose 100% ethanol instead of proper E10, etc).

My gut reaction is that using 100% ethanol invalidates the test because it's not something the tank would ever have in contact.  Using gasoline with 15% ethanol would have been appropriate to account for the differences in regional formulations of gasoline, but using 100% doesn't make sense except to show that the coating is incompatible with pure ethanol, not surprising considering how aggressive it is.  

Does this mean Caswell's is a failure?  I don't know.  I know multiple folks with that coating and are doing fine after many miles and many hot summers and cold winters on the road.  Failure testing just shows something CAN fail, it doesn't offer too much useful information as to real world application.  

I would like to see the same sort of temperature cycling test done with proper gasoline with no more than 15-20% ethanol and 1% water, which is a more realistic test methodology.   I'm not going to say Caswell's is a failure, but I will say that people should be extra careful to apply it correctly and to thin it with nylon-compatible reducer to ensure coverage.  Double coating is probably in order.  Oh, and don't put 100% ethanol into your tank

The one thing I've noticed is they are trying to paint all epoxy coatings with the same brush.  My objection specifically referred to an epoxy coating designed for polyamides (which caswell's may not be) but they don't respond to it.   RelTek in California sells a formulation that is designed for polyamides including PA6.

One criticism was that the coating and the tank won't expand and contract at the same rate, which may be true for some formulations, but the ones I've found specifically retain elasticity.  Which means they ahve to be applied when the tank is in it's normal state and not expanded.

I'm hesitant to accept without some support their testing of Caswells.  I understand the issue, but I know nothing of how the coatings were applied or by whom and under what conditions.

[xsephirot]

Reading thru the settlement it seems they want to offer a replacement tank that is smaller so that if (and when) it does expand that the tank won't deform. Are there any other issues that would be considered a safety issue if the tank retains on its rubber mounts and the latch is able to latch?

[jgrm1]

RelTek in California sells a formulation that is designed for polyamides including PA6.

Has anyone lined a Ducati fuel tank with the RelTek stuff?

-Jeff