GUN STUFF

[ducpainter]

I can't imagine why anyone would ever think a hand gun could do it all.

[RAT900]

Thanks for clearing up my clouded memory...86 was a strange year for me 

[fastwin]

I had serious trouble with '76.

[RAT900]

I had serious trouble with '76.

  I'm pretty sure 1976 wasn't a keeper for me either,

but I would have to confirm that with people who probably are just as happy to not hear from me

[ducatiz]

No, that was the tragic 1986 Miami, Florida shoot out when they used Federal 115grn 9mm hollow points and they failed to penetrate the auto body and glass of the bank robber's vehicle effectively.

Agents:
    Richard Manauzzi: lost control of weapon in the initial vehicle collision, no shots fired. Minor injuries from shotgun pellets.[7]
    Gordon McNeill: S&W M19-3 .357 Magnum revolver, six rounds .38 Special +P fired. Seriously injured by .223 gunshot wounds to the right hand and neck.
    Edmundo Mireles: Remington M870 12-gauge shotgun, five rounds 00 buckshot fired, .357 Magnum revolver (S&W, records show that it was a Smith & Wesson Model 686 despite not being FBI issue), six rounds .38 Special +P fired. Seriously injured by a .223 gunshot wound to the left forearm.
    Gilbert Orrantia: S&W (model unknown) .357 Magnum revolver, 12 rounds .38 Special +P fired. Injured by shrapnel and debris produced by a .223 bullet near miss.
    John Hanlon: S&W M36 .38 Special revolver, 2-inch barrel, five rounds .38 Special +P fired. Seriously injured by .223 gunshot wounds to the right hand and groin.
    Benjamin Grogan: S&W M459 9mm pistol, nine rounds fired. Killed by a .223 gunshot wound to the chest.
    Jerry Dove: S&W M459 9mm pistol, 20 rounds fired. Killed by two .223 gunshot wounds to the head.
    Ronald Risner: S&W M459 9mm pistol, 13â€"14 rounds fired, S&W (model unknown) .38 Special revolver, one round .38 Special +P fired. Uninjured.

A bunch of them were not using 9mm.   And there are plenty of hot 9mm rounds which could have been used but they weren't using them.

[fastwin]

By that count there were at least three. Whatever the 9mm count it went down as a flaming defeat for many reasons and very sadly so. Tactically and also as far as round ballistics and firearms. It forced the FBI to totally overhaul their handgun program. For the better.

[ducatiz]

By that count there were at least three. Whatever the 9mm count it went down as a flaming defeat for many reasons and very sadly so. Tactically and also as far as round ballistics and firearms. It forced the FBI to totally overhaul their handgun program. For the better.

Oh, I agree, I just don't think it was 9mm that was the problem.  It doesn't say anything about the rounds the 9mm guns had.  What was the weight?  load?  projectile type? 

Seems to me they could have found a better load and taught their guys to shoot better.  A 459 has a double stack magazine for 15 or 17 rounds.  With some +P or +P+ rounds they could have easily penetrated that car, at least I can with my G19 and +P+ Rangers.

I think the move to 10 and then 40 was trying to get some of the large round performance of the 45 -- i.e. more damage per single hit.  You figure you fire 10 times at a target you might hit twice when under stress. 

[Mother]

Oh, I agree, I just don't think it was 9mm that was the problem.  It doesn't say anything about the rounds the 9mm guns had.  What was the weight?  load?  projectile type? 

Seems to me they could have found a better load and taught their guys to shoot better.  A 459 has a double stack magazine for 15 or 17 rounds.  With some +P or +P+ rounds they could have easily penetrated that car, at least I can with my G19 and +P+ Rangers.

I think the move to 10 and then 40 was trying to get some of the large round performance of the 45 -- i.e. more damage per single hit.  You figure you fire 10 times at a target you might hit twice when under stress. 

or they simply could have used .357 mag rounds in thier 357's and it wouldn't have been an issue



Here is my applicable 9mm story

A buddy had his 76 toyota corolla stolen in 2001 or so

the thief was confronted in the vehicle by Portland PD on foot

the officer approached the vehicle from the passenger front

the thief attempted to run down the officer

The officer emptied his 9mm Glock 17 into the windshield producing a pattern about 5"w x7"h from 30ish feet

(personal opinion: not bad for rapid-fire-holy-shit-this-make the beast with two backser-is-trying-to-kill-me-with-a-car shooting)

the majority of the rounds deflected off the glass

5 penetrated striking the man in the chest, neck, and head with bullet fragments

all non-lethal and non-incapacitating



Portland PD was authorized to use the Glock 21's but after a pair of them exploded on the range they dumped them for the 17's

[ducatiz]

the majority of the rounds deflected off the glass

laminated glass is tough, plus the angle.  you don't need much hardness to deflect a projectile.

we used to go to an old junk yard in Mississippi to shoot cars, owner was father of my friend.  we found out pretty quickly that shooting some windshields produced deflections (post 1980s cars) and others just exploded (pre laminated glass)

[sugarcrook]

Picked up a Sig516 today.  Looking forward to taking it to the range after the 10-day waiting period is over. 

[Mother]

Put 12 rounds through the .300 today

really easy recoil

suprising

The trigger on this mauser is beautiful

makes me wonder if it has had trigger work done or if they are all like this

[The Bacon Junkie]

Anybody want to edumacate me on .22 Win Mags? 

I was talking with a buddy and he's looking to get rid of his, just cuz he doesn't really shoot it anymore.

I'm not too gun savvy, but I can hit what I'm aiming at for the most part.

I don't know all the abbreviations (why is that such a long word?) or technospeak.

Just looking for what to look for, or run away from.

I think he said it was a Ruger?  He also said something about 10 22 and WMR? 

Thanks.

[zarn02]

He also said something about 10 22

The Ruger 10/22 is pretty much the default, standard, tried-and-true semi-auto .22 rifle. Everybody makes everything for them, and they're a fantastic platform to do whatever you could ever want to do.

Or just to plink with.

Sure wish I still had my 10/22, and will someday have to pick up another.

[RAT900]

.22  WMR (Winchester Magnum Rimfire) is now a great round since CCI and Hornady have been making highly accurate ballistic tip ammo for it

Traditionally accurate ammo for it (WMR) was real hit or miss (literally)

Is is a rimfire round but is NOT interchangeable with rifles chambered for .22 Long Rifle

The ammo is more expensive than .22LR but if you are looking for longer reach and higher velocities

or are varminting the .22WMR is a great way to go if a .17HMR is not your cup of tea

If I had a choice of 1 caliber for a SHTF scenario it would likely be .22wmr, more rounds per lbs. and well-placed shots can take a wide range of game

and carrying potable water is heavy enough....lugging centerfire ammo would be counter-productive from a survival migration perspective

[Mother]

Rimfire is a joy to shoot now days, much more consistant ammo

no more Bang Bang Bang click Bang Bang click Bang Bang Bang Bang PffOP Bang click