Ducati Monster Forum

Designing a bracket that will hold battery and ECU after removing the airbox to run open filters/stacks. We will post images of the design shortly.   I am curious how many people would be interested in joining us for this purchase as it is quite cheaper per unit to have more made.  At about 20 units, the price per unit would be well under $100.  Feedback and thoughts are appreciated.

Who is "we"?


See if you can post up which v-stacks and pod filter size you are looking to use, which PC module you plan on using, the material for the bracketry you expect to make, etc.

I don't have a 696, (or the other two either) currently, but I am interested in knowing if something is out there to suggest to friends trying to accomodate such devices as well as things for bikes I might have in the garage in the future.

My buddy and myself are designing it in CAD and having them professionally machined.  Material will be 1/8" aluminum appropriate to the application (still deciding on material choice).

if you are going to have them machined, why not offer a CF version.
also, the option say for a small LIon battery cell.

...and before you start selling them here you'll contact us about sponsorship...

right?

Just to clarify. 2-Skinny(ryan) and I are trying to design this bracket together. We are long time friends and have grown up working on cars and just in the last couple of years, motorcycles, together. He has helped me with a lot of my projects on my own bike, and I have helped him on his.

This is not to make money, or anything like that. Basically, I want pod filters on my 696, really really really bad. However, as we know, no company makes the necessary hardware to install them(or wont sell to us Americans). The bracket is necessary to move the ECU, battery, and other components.

So we decided to make a bracket ourselves. However, due to the cost to machine parts, its cheaper to make several units, as opposed to just a single unit. So, for instance, it would cost approx. $250 to make one bracket. But if I were to order 10 brackets to be made it might cost $50 per unit.The initial cost might be much more, but the per unit cost is way way less.

Because of this, we decided to see who would want one of these brackets. The more people, the cheaper they are. If no one would want to order one, then I will sit patiently and wait for some company to release them, or bite the bullet and have one made just for me.

The idea was to share the wealth with these, and hopefully people will want to take part. Not to make money or try to promote a business or anything, just to get some brackets at a decent price so new monster owners could install pod filters.

Secondly, the bracket can be made of any material. Steel, stainless steel, carbon fiber, aluminum, etc. If it can be machines, or shaped, we could have it made. However, with the materials, the price changes.

You could order any pod filter setup that you desired(Ducshop velocity stacks or TPO beast, or any others out there), use this bracket to move the ECU and battery, and then have it all installed.

Here is a rough, and I mean very rough image of what we are looking at producing.

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/1-1.png)

huh. so if you buy in bulk, you can get it at a lower unit price.


don't look now, but i think somebody is on to your business plans...
(http://www.freakygossip.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Costco.jpg)

and if that wasn't bad enough, somebody is copying them!
(http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gawker/2010/01/sams_club_entrance_lg2.jpg)


better play your cards a little closer to the table, everyone! There be spies among us!

i think its a great idea, but doesnt the tpo beast and others come with said bracket? i agree, the setup from the Aussies is very expensive, tpo is a bit better, but just the bracket alone, how much in the long run is someone going to save?

I'm going by the numbers your business partner posted. ;)

No, not for the new monster. TPO was supposed to be in making one, but I have not hear a thing yet about it. The last I heard was "in a few weeks" and that was a few months ago. The aussies arent selling their setup, and they have yet to email me back stating if they would sell just the bracket or were planning on selling their kit anytime soon.

The alternative I found was to........ just build it myself.

Just using rough approximate numbers, to produce just one bracket would cost about $270. I plugged the numbers in and to produce just 10, with the design I have now, would cost about $40(and thats with shipping) per unit.

I am assuming setup costs and time to have the machinery configured to make the part is a majority of the cost. Once everything is in place though, it's mainly cost of material.

Like said before, this is just to gauge interest. If there is none, Ill make it just for me, but if people wanna get in on it, then it can be relatively cheap

thin aluminum, I'm not sure about.  Aluminum, depending on the grade can get brittle after a few bends typically. 

I'm intrigued, but need to know more about materials and insurance against defect (such as breaking from bumps jarring it)

Any material can be used. If we wanted to get expensive we could use carbon fiber, but I'm guessing steel or ss will be the best material. Strong and cheap. Just heavier.

right but i was curious about everything, a bracket is great, but what do i do about the filters and intakes. I did hear from TPO recently, they said springs for the 696

tpo, ducshop.  the stacks are all the same (one fitment, different product/dimensions)

Yeah, per TPO their stacks will fit/work on the 696/796/1100, just no bracket

This bracket would allow you to eliminate the airbox and hold the battery once that has been removed.  Thinking about it now, steel probably would be easiest, though the aluminum we were spec'ing to use would be strong enough.  What you do after eliminating the airbox would be up to you- either run stacks with filters, stacks alone, or just attach filters.  There are lots of companies (Ducati specific or otherwise) that sell velocity stacks and filters of various designs.  This would allow you to build your own kit so to speak, at quite a substantial savings as well.

Guys I like your approach.  Cant buy one.  Bugger it, make my own  [thumbsup].  

I think WASP is screwed - their kit (which I have as many of you already know) is the complete deal, great quality and well thought out.  But its also pretty spendy.  And with the rise and rise of the Mighty Aussie Dollar vs your embattled Greenbacks.... the already high price just keeps climbing.  So even if they could get their act together... the export price would IMO make it too pricey.  Great product, but they missed their window.  Gotta be a lesson there  [roll].  Anyway I digress.....

So back to your plans.  You're right - make a decent quality bracket to support the ECU and battery holder etc and the rest can be cherry-picked on an individual basis.  

Give 'em a break DP - it looks like a "who's in to split the costs" deal rather than a Get Rich by marketing for free on the DMF scam.  Just saying  ;) ;D.

oh i see. well keep us updated with cad images and prototypes

Here's the deal...

The guys that put this thing together and run it on a daily basis have gotten exactly $50 each out of the deal.

These guys are looking to get free parts according to their latest set of numbers. Keep in mind the numbers have changed 3 times so I can't really tell what the plan is.

The rules are simple...if you make money here you share the wealth. It's like that to protect our paying sponsors. Saving money on their own stuff is the same as making money.

I'm not asking that they become full sponsors, but if they can get the savings to over $200/unit  what's wrong with charging an extra $10 and asking they throw a donation at the forum?

I'd be interested.

I do wonder about the WASP Works kit - (A) bad idea not to ramp up production and allow worldwide sales, the product could be a financial success for them if they did - it is a global economy afterall. (B) I want to get hold of there v-stacks with the golf-ball dimples (i'm thinking of the right ones, yes?) - while I like the idea, it would be great to test them against the other designs. It is hard to imagine that if there were such an easy improvement to the velocity stack design, we'd have seen it in drag racing years ago, and in factory equipment more recently. Not saying it doesn't work, but why has nobody else tried this relatively old flow technology ...

and fwiw, i would not be interested in a steel product, more than likely. it'd have to be over the top nice and skeletonized.

@Ducpainter
I understand your concern I would gladly throw a donation at the board. However, the numbers I have been throwing out are rough approximates. There is not final design and therefore no final price. I would not be making a dime. I would be shelling out the the same as everyone else. I want this part, and am seeing who else would want one as well. If enough people say "yeah. I want that" then the price could be very low, and we could all walk away with a part some of us need. I am not here to make money, just get the damn bracket made at a decent price. Everyone, including myself, would be paying the same amount for the bracket. I know there is not way to really "trust" that I am not trying to make a product, but if you saw how many emails I have sent to Waspworks, TPO, and Ducshop you would see I am all about getting velocity stacks on my bike, not starting up a business or making $.

@ a m
There has been no final say in the material. It all depends on how many people show interest and what they think would be the best material. I am trying to make this a joint effort for all the members who would like to upgrade to pod filters/velocity stacks so input is welcome. It's a chance for us all to work on a piece of hardware that we all want. But the final product could be annodized, PC, or made of a variety of finishes, and it will be skeletonized as well. The pic I posted is the rough design.

Like Ryan(2-skinny) said, this is just to gauge interest. Nothing is made, it's just a rough sketch on paper and in our heads. We want to see if there is a demand for it, or what members would want to take part in developing it. Sometimes if you want something you gotta take measure into your own hands, and that is what we are doing.

I am curious how a thread gauging interest for what amounts to a group buy has already turned to: "donate to forum" and "you can't make a profit unless you are a sponsor"...

Re-read your original post, look at when I originally commented, and then get back to me via pm.

I'd be happy to discuss it with either yourself or DoWorkSon.

To compare the TPO, Wasp and Ducshop V-stacks would be a good exercise.
We need to get a WASP kit to a m. Unge, any ideas?
Enough with the thread jack, I'll go to another thread.

I think it would be a great exercise in flow measurement - do it on the computer, do it in university lab environment, then put 'em on a bike and test 'em again on the dyno.

I just ordered the duc shop stacks. Will be mocking up the bracket once I get them. So hopefully if the group buy don't work out there at least will be a diy thread in the future.

That's unfortunate - though I would need to be able to plan well ahead to contact some folks for good flow testing. Then again, I do spend everyday at the corner of a university, and there is an engineering dept around here somewheres.


Wonder if they are having trouble with lack of capital?  Who knows... but the products in a "coming/returning soon" category often beg such a question.

im sure no one has a problem adding alittle to the donation pot.  I'ld put a few extra in for it.

My preferences are quality carbon fiber, else a very high quality, strong aluminum. Lastly stamped steel.

You get them done, I'll definitely be interested in the 50-75 range. 

Keep me informed.

If it is steel or aluminum it is going to be machined, not stamped.

Guys I am very interested....more so in Raux suggestion of making it work with the Lithium Ion batteries...may as well save as much weight as we can right? to add even more value to the exercise if we could standardize the stacks and filters perhaps we could get a bike to Rexxer for a dyno tune????? this could be a real collective effort. happy to help in any way I can.
I'm in.....credit to the lads behind this.

Calling Mr Raux?  Mr Raux to the white courtesy telephone please.........

Different Batteries are different sizes though, speedcell, Mavyrik, Shorai, Antigravity, are all differently sized slightly. I think this would make it hard to standardize.

Tuning would require exhaust. A standard higher flow design could get close, but it still isn't optimal.  Alot of work to ship the stacks have it tuned, and then need to alter it anyway with PC5 if you want it, "RIGHT"

Again agreed but personally I am not looking for a race tune, just better than what comes from the factory, most guys going to the trouble and cost of removing the airbox are going to have the full exhaust already and I would be brave enough to say flow variations between differing brands will be minimal, I also suspect most of the "open pod arrangements will be similar in flow characteristics so again a close enough tune should be possible. I am curious if the impressive results Ung achieved at low and mid range are less to do with the stacks etc  and more to do with "fresh" clean air being available at low speeds rather than breathing in contaminated fouled air created by valve overlap, fouling can be a common problem with semi aggressive cams and common airboxes where a certain amount of engine speed is required before the airbox / plenum will clean up.

Obviously one of the biggest challenges here for the boys is to get a common kit that everyone will agree with... wars have been started in the past over lesser things... regardless I am still in.

All the best to you all.

Yeah, I should call the guys in Italy and see if they want to work on something.

As far as the battery question. The bracket allows the battery tray to stay in place. The bracket supports the tray. So, if you get a battery that can fit in the tray, then it will work. I imagine aftermarket, lighter batteries will easily work, as long as you can secure them in place using the OEM tray.

Here is the design so far... Measurements are not exact on this and it is NOT to scale. However, looking at the bike, this is probably going to be how it will roughly look like....

Feel free to chime in with ideas on design for the inside of the brackets. Anyone want a certain logo? shape? "DMF". If I can draw it, it can be put in there...

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/011-5.jpg)

Where are you mounting that to?

Can you show me a small drawing how it mounts to the frame?

Still working out mounting points, but probably to the points where the stock airbox was mounted. Those mounting points are not in the design yet. I have to get the angles, lengths, and all that.

The small tab on the lower left side mounts to the frame. Directly underneath were there tank slips in. If you look at the left side of your bike, just beneath and to the left of the bolt that attaches the tank cover, you should be able to see a bracket with a hole in it. Not sure what its there for or why, but it's where it will be mounted.

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/12.jpg)

Here is a pic(sorry about quality). The arrow is pointing to the bracket which is behind frame.

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/011-6.jpg)

I love R&D. Good job folks, what most people are not realizing in this venture is, most products from starting of development go through many changes and even after production, there is more changes. Numbers change, budget wise and so on. heck even Lockheed, General Dynamics and Boeing all find out that the original budget price might be exceeded, many times! Good on you for thinking out side the box, patents are the hard part to get!

Have you thought about the coils and starter relay? they all are mounted to the airbox. and all the wiring issues.
the throttle cables are run through a holder on the box as well.

When we do the tear down once the velocity stacks arive we will confirm placement of those items.

 [popcorn]

[popcorn] [popcorn]

I'm in.....if you are to go ahead, I'll chip in.

 [popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn]

I don't even have a new-gen monster, but I'm anxious to see how this plays out.

I'm all for using an active client base for R+D. As for sponsorship, hell, if it goes to market, or even a group buy, I'll throw $10 at the DMF coffers just because I like to hang out here.

I've wasted more money for less return before.  [beer]

Appreciate the interest guys.  We have seen how others have mounted things up so we will try to get measurements and come up with a finalized design fairly quickly.  Definitely will keep updates posted.

UPDATE:

Today Ryan(2-skinny) and I tore down the bike, removed the airbox, and started to do a hands on mock-up of the bracket, designing it in CAD, and then double checking CAD with the actual parts and in the bike so everything is accurate...

Here is a pic of what it "should" look like when finally produced

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/1.png)

The bracket is mounted to the mounting points of the original airbox..

Right now I am double checking and comfirming all of the parts and placement, which should be the longest and most tedious part of this project...

However, the price, If we are able to get at least 10 people into the group buy, can be under $50. This depends on the material used...If we go the stainless steel route or something higher end, prices go up obviously...

We still have to mount up the coils and a few other little things, which shouldn't be too hard. just need to find a spot to attach them.

Count me in.

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/12-1.png)

Update design. Changed the vertical bracket that would bolt to the battery tray. I did this for a few reasons.... Due to unknown thickness of material we will be using, the slightest change will throw off the bolt holes on bracket from lining up with the ones on the battery tray. Two, when everything is manufactured and all the bends are made, I think the dimensions also might be thrown off a bit. Opened up the center with several vertical/horizontal lines, so that when the battery tray is placed on the bracket, it can simply be zip tied to the bracket..... This was the easiest way I could see since I don't have an actual solid metal model to work with. Every time I thought I would get it right, I would adjust something and the alignment of these holes would be off.... So this is the sure fire way to make it work.

There is very little stress on the battery tray, its already bolted down at another point, and the battery is held in place by other means.... A few zip ties should easily secure everything in place and still allow a little flex when riding.

The arm looking bracket with the two prongs is for one of the electrical components, which I am not even sure what it is(starter)?... Maybe Raux or someone else can chime in. Basically, the component is surrounded by rubber and has two vertical slits on the rubber housing for it to be secured in place on the stock air box... These prongs slip through that rubber to secure it. Another zip tie and it should be good to go.



Still working out all the kinks.... But, it is almost done... Will update when I get some more done.

looking promising assuming all fits. what if i cant get in on the initial order? screwed? waiting on more options for actual pods

There probably will not be more options for pods

you have 3.5 quality options for them to choose from.

TPO Beast
TPO Beast-R
DucShop


and the .5 goes to Waspworks, because they make them, but don't sell them

Also: suggestion, dedicated mounting point for PCV, since it will be required (not really required but highly beneficial) to adequately tune for the intake changes.  -- maybe this fits well opposed the battery.  I don't know offhand how everything fits in there once the box is gone, so just making sure that it's been brought up

Haven't set up anything for the initial order so your in luck. Still have to get a headcount of how many people would want them and then I would try to set up some type of escrow account for everyone who wants in on it.

I ordered the Ducshop pods. Their company was helpful when I spoke to them, and they have a "complete" kit.... Filters, stacks, PCV filters, and crankcase filters... Their stacks look almost identical to TPO, but I just like how they had the complete kit, rather than ordering individual items. Hopefully these will be in by next weekend and I can install and get some pics...

I think the PCV can be mounted to the vertical bracket. The slots in it allow for multiple items to be attached via bolts/washer/screws or zip ties. I am going to run all the tubing and attach to that.

Opening up the airbox opens a lot of options and provides a ton of space for mounting and attaching items.

Each bike is different so that will also take part in the installation. Some people have done the charcoal canister delete, some have not. People have moved things around, or installed different items.

However, a little ingenuity and elbow grease will get this project finished up.

I will check the diameter of the stacks when they are installed, but a little Google research may turn up some other "universal" filter options.  As long as the mouth diameter is correct for whatever application you choose to run, then they will work.

There may also be room under the ECU mounting point to attach the PC which may work depending on how you install it.

With the airbox gone, it also leaves it up to the end user to sort out some of the vent tubing.  There is at least one or two crankcase/ engine vents that fed into the airbox which can either be shortened and a small filter added or a one way valve added and a length of hose added to vent to atmosphere.

One of the cool things, like DoWorkSon (Brian) said, is that with all of the airbox parts removed there is alot of space opened up and plenty of DIY options for mounting points and accommodating various brands of intake, tuning, etc.

Yup, that electrical component is the starter solenoid.

Bump.

Quick update....

Just getting price/time quotes from local shops... Once we get prices we will let all of you interested folks know

The Ducshop hyperstacks came in today... Here is a quick shot of the kit, them installed, and them installed with the tank on(Just to make sure they aren't too big and there is enough room....

Tomorrow I will be mocking up a sheet metal model of bracket and hopefully can have a rough model that will actually be installed on the bike...

Still looking for a local shop to make the brackets... Getting price quotes and the fabrication stuff worked out.....

The kit.. Stacks, filter, PCV filter, and crankcase filter
(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/004-5.jpg)

Installed stacks
(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/005-4.jpg)

Tank on
(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/006-2.jpg)

Count me IN let me know when you want my $.

I'm loving this shit.


Please save me some time and create a parts list with PN's for the stack filters, pvc filter and crankcase breather filter.

 [popcorn] [clap] [bacon] [bow_down] [evil]



Getting anxious!!!!

Sweet! I will count you in... Once we get a shop to make them and some prices, ill work out how all the contributors will put in their "donations"

If you get the Ducshop kit, it comes with everything in that picture... I believe when ordering the TPO kit, the "suggest" the additional filters and offer them as an add-on when ordering..

All in all, the price for the duchop and TPO are the same(approx $300 w/tax and S&H). If you get the TPO beast-R kit(bigger stacks/filters) you are paying more(approx. $400+), and I am not sure if the larger filters and stacks will fit on the 696/796/1100.

DoWorkSon,

So you still need to get an PCV correct? Running pods even with the DP ECU will most likely result in running very lean right?

What's your plan to deal with this PCV or just risk it.

I like DucShop a lot, so not to take sales away from them, but if you aren't sure what to get (want a complete kit), you can call Allan at TPO Parts down in College Station and he'll make sure you get everything you need. Its divided up for component ordering for those that do not want K&N brand filters (perhaps UNI, etc), or that simply need to replace a single element from use: perhaps you crashed really good and mucked up a filter, or don't like to clean filters, etc etc.

no way I would do this without a PC V

I have a PCV. Got one a few weeks ago cheap on ebay.... Its currently mapped with the downloadable slip-ons/hi-flow filter map. Once everything is installed, going to a local dynotuner and "authorized dynojet" shop to have it tuned for my setup. Hopefully, Ill be able to provide that map to anyone who wants it.



Both companies are great. They both have been really good in communicating with me and both have good products. I went with ducshop, but TPO is also very good.... Not trying to show favoritism or anything. Each provides a good product to fit whatever needs you have, at about the same price.

I'd love you for this. We have the same bike/same exhaust/ and soon to be same intake setup.

Would be a perfect tune for my machine.

I dont know if the TPB beast-R would fit either...... but....  the K+Ns you have on your mock-up do look quite a bit smaller than those which came as part of the WASP kit.... So I can say that filters larger than yours will fit, but again, I have no idea how large the TPB beast-r things are.

+11ty billion (or a custom flashed ECU << not exactly easily obtainable).

Enjoying watching this come together guys  [thumbsup]. 

+1


+1

I'm in. 

For all who are interested, make sure you PM DoWorkSon your info.  He is keeping track, and then we can contact you personally to coordinate payment info once everything is finalized.

Another update...

Today, I got some sheet metal, broke out the grinder and made a very rough bracket...

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/004-7.jpg)

As you can probably see, it is missing a few little parts that are not in the final design. However, I am still making these and sticking them on. But good news is, it fits, bolted right in, and the measurement are correct! I even placed the battery tray, battery, and the ecu on, with the tank, and it all worked out.

So, hopefully, once we find a shop to make them, we will have them rolling out. Right now, I think we have narrowed it down to one shop, and next week, Ryan(2-skinny) is meeting with the guy to go over the design....

Looks good.

Can i get away with running the ducshop kit just with my Dp Ecu on my 796?

what would be the pros and cons ?


will i still get the hp increase with out the PCV

its hard to say offhand.   it shouldn't cause a problem. you will undoubtedly run lean though which will make it harder on starts and poorer running in general.   you may see a gain but the chance is that it is minimal or worse a loss due to poor tuning.  also rideability should suffer

Your bike would run like crap....

I noticed a very lean condition just with a new filter and open exhaust. I installed the two brother juice box which helped smooth everything out. But with these POD filters, and my open exhaust, a tune is a must. Plus, I want everything dialed in a running perfectly...

If you do not want to go with the powercommander option, I do have my juice box for sale... but not sure if it works on 796..

Oh, and another update...

Right now, I have received numerous messages about interested parties. We are getting close to 10 people stating that they want the bracket.

Ryan(2-skinny) is meeting with fabricator this week.

With 10 people, I can get the bracket for $40 delivered to my house within 12 business days from the online vendor. So, $40 plus shipping to everyone... Pretty much an awesome deal if you ask me.

Hopefully, the production time/cost will be a little less with the local shop. 

Also changed up the design a tad for the starter solenoid. This replaced the prongs that held it with a simple bracket design that would be held in place by a zip tie which it slipped through the rubber housing and through the notches. It will be far more secure and stronger this way.

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/004-8.jpg)

sorry but i still dont get this part 


Description:
Specially designed “in house” by Lorin at Ducshop this kit will optimize midrange, peak horsepower and torque for Ducati’s Hypermotard and Sport Classic. Eliminates the stock airbox for better air flow and allows more cooling air to the rear cylinder. Works well with any DP ecu and PCIII or a Microtec for best results.

Works well with any DP ecu and PCIII or a Microtec for best results. 

From Ducshop
'''I haven't tried the kit with a stock ecu but mine didn't really need a PCIII when I used a DP Termi or DP cam ecu, Microtec is another option or a PCIII might wortk with the Fat Duc O2 modulator.'''

I have a Monster 796 with termi, and dp ecu racing
do i still need to buy a power commander and tune it . to run the Hyper stack?

the old mareli ecu was tuneable to a point. the Siemens in the 6/796,1100 automatic adjust within a narrow scale.  

you need a pc5 or else your bike runs like shit.  case closed.  do you don't need it,  but if you don't want your bike to run like a turd you want it.

Any intake modifications which enable to motor to fill its lungs with more air also needs to have that more air balanced with the correct quota of more fuel.  Otherwise whats the point?  A PCV is the add-on which allows you to dialup more fuel to go with the greater volume of air you can inhale.  Make sense?

Sorry mattc7, I completely disagree.  It's easy to say. And in all likelihood will cause problems: Increasing air-intake volume alone will do nothing except create a state of lean fuelling.  

It shouldnt cause a problem? You identified some of the likely problems in the same post:andI seriously would not modify the intake without also adding some way to increase fuel.  And a PCV will do that fuelling job well.

jfgducat, none of the above is relevant here.  Hyper and Sport Classic run Marelli ECUs - a completely different animal.  M696/M796/M1100 all run Siemens ECUs.  If you modify the intake the only way to get these ECU's to fuel more is to add on some kinda piggy-back management device (like PCV) or have your ECU custom-flashed and Rexxer-Dynoed.  The second of those options isnt achievable for most of us and so that's why most of us have chosen to go the PCV route.

my version of problem is engine harm.  it shouldn't get lean enough to cause serious engine harm.  just shitty performance and crappy economy.    night not even start if too lean

Nice gesture, if Rexxer develops a map for this set up then count me in.
 Thanks

Do you already own the Rexxer module?  If not, the cost is pretty much the same for the Power Commander, if not less and there are maps for the PC.

Additionally, the cost to get in on this bracket should be cheap enough that buying it now for future use is really affordable.  Just my 2 cents... :-\

Rexxer gets full tunes.  PCV doesn't function in the closed loop sections of the map. They do offer the optimizers, however it's not documented that this is optimal.

Rexxer eliminates O2 sensors, makes it all tuneable so you can fully utilize the PCV.  If they had a map for it, then no need for the PCV, and all your tuning is through a map not a piggyback

Isn't the problem with the rexxer is that there are limited maps and that the only tune center for rexxer is in Europe somewhere? I know it's a great option, but from what I have read, maps for specific mods is a little limited....

All true  [thumbsup].

Also all true  [thumbsup].   

Dont really wanna threadjack your airbox elimination thread with this stuff, but it is kinda associated.....   IMO the ideal setup would be to have your ECU custom flashed and setup on a Dyno with fuel mapping specifically tailored to your own setup - in this case having eliminated the airbox.  This can be done right now by Rexxer at a Rexxer tuning facility.  Works pretty much the same as visiting your local Dynojet centre and having them map your PCV, except that Rexxer are creating a custom map directly for the ECU.  No piggy-back device needed.  Beautiful.  Beautiful that is if you live in Europe, close enough to one of Rexxer's tuning centres to take your bike along and have your ECU mapping created on their Rexxer-Dyno.

The rest of us have gotta settle for second best:  A reflashed ECU to delete the stock closed loop with a Rexxer map written to get close to ideal for your setup.  Onto which you add your PVC in order to tune more precisely to your individual setup.

Correct. PCV itself doesnt do anything in the stock closed loop although the optimizers do a pretty good job of "fattening up" the fuelling in the closed loop.  Not documented as optimal, no.  But I have tried it this way and IMO it works pretty well.  Dont knock it as a good first option.

So, if you're gonna eliminate your airbox then IMO (unless you can custom flash the ECU, as talked about above) then a PCV is a must have.

As a nice next step you can also reflash your ECU to remove the closed loop and then utilise your PCV to manage fuelling throughout the entire rev range.

Best of all lets all shout Raux  [drink] [drink] [drink] until he agrees to get his arse over to one of Rexxer's German tuning centres  ;D.

problem is i don't have the cash to try out all the options.

Yes I already have the Rexxer User set-up (and really like the mapping), so if Rexxer produces a map for this set up the cost to me would be minimal.

As much as I've read on this subject I should know this, but what are the 'optimizers'? Do they come with the PCV or is that a separate purchase? If so, how much do they cost and where do you get them?

come with the PC V

I know the German location, Ducati Saarland, where they can produce some maps, but apparently there finally is one place in the states where they are making Rexxer maps, Redline performance in Yorktown, VA. Not sure if Desmoworks in CA is doing the maps, but they sell it.

So if you guys are near either place you can talk to them directly.

I talked to Chris the other day. Their local Daniele Moto location in Germany is just a warehouse, the tuning is in Turin, so not likely i can take a quick trip til summer. I would need a van full of parts to test all the configurations you guys are coming up with.

I spoke to desmoworks regarding a map for the setup I will be running with. They only had a map for slip ons... Nothing for anything more modified. They were supposed to be searching around, but I never heard back.

So I went with the powercommander route and will have it custom tuned. I wish I could have had the ecu reflashed for the map I wanted and also raise rev limiter and delete the o2 sensors... But it's just not an option unless you want to pay nearly twice as much...

So for those going te power commander route, I should have a map avail soon for pod filters, and exhaust.

Another update for everyone. Ryan sat down with local fabricator today. Price will be about $40-50 a person, and that is with them powdercoated black. Would be cheaper without powdercoating, but to prevent rust and have it look good, powdercoating is the way to go. The fabricator is a long time ducati rider, and seems very interested in the project and knows what he is doing... He will be emailing the final numbers to us tonight or tomorrow. This will include a "prototype" model so we know everything will be am exact fit...

Expect then ready to ship soon.

If you havnt pm'd me, please do with you email address so I can put you on the mailing list.

what did you end up doing about the coils?

One coil needs to be mounted on an open space on bracket, the other (closer to front wheel) is up to end user to find a home for.  A stip of 1/8 aluminum should be able to hold it ok.

Do they need to be isolated from the frame? They are mounted to the plastic airbox now.

It's hard to determine where to place the forward most coil due to every bike being different.

Some people have eliminated the charcoal canister, some still have it. Some people have moved different components or installed oil coolers(or have them stock) and this changes the entire front end of the engine area.

I plan on making a small bracket using the mounting points of where the charcoal canister used to be.

I wouldn't mount the rear coil to the frame, but with the elimination of the air box, it opens up a lot of space and possibilities to where to mount them.

Once we get everything installed, we will be tackling where to mount the coils. But, I do not see it being a huge set back/difficulty. Right now, It is hard to determine where to mount them because nothing is installed and there are many loose components. Once it's all buttoned up and everything is in place, then securing the coils somewhere will take place.

While I may be incorrect, I believe you are required to leave the charcoal cannister on the bike if registered in California.

You are correct a m , but California doesn't require inspections or smog checks on motorcycles so what they don't know won't hurt them.  Also, eliminating the charcoal canister doesn't affect operation of the bike and it looks better.

It may be a law/regulation to only sell a bike(from dealership, brand new) with one, or there might be some weird DMV regulation requiring a charcoal canister for an inspection if you are bringing in a bike from out of the state/country and registering it in CA.... But I can guarantee I have never heard of any law that says you must have one on while riding around. I cannot think of a single vehicle code that says anything about it. They do not smog or inspect bikes here when they are sold from one person to another....  And I know many of the laws  [leo]

I've dealt with Redline & bought a mapped PCV He sells for the 2010 Multistrada, He figured out a way around the Multis's ECU, o2 sensor closed loop & has a PCV that allows full tuning from idel to redline. So I'll give him a call and see if He'll make a Rexxer map for this set up. But I'm not sure if He would have the capability to email the map to those of us who have the Rexxer User. I'll see what He says & post up.

Can you ask him the same about bypassing all that for the monsters who are using the PC?

I will when I speak with Him (I sent him an email no response yet) but a few months ago when getting the Multi set up we talked a bit about the Monster ECU and He said they were a tough nut to crack & the Multis ECU which is a Mitsubishi was easier. At the time I already had the Rexxer on the 696 so I wasn't to concerned about the 696 ecu. I'm pretty sure He hasn't figured out a way around the closed loop o2 sensors on the Seimens. On the Multi the ECU will disable the o2 closed loop system if the outside air temp is below 40 degrees so Redline made a device that plugs into the sensor and fools it into thinking that it's always below 40 degrees which then allows full mapping of A/f ratios with a PCV from idle to redline. It's kinda ironic that on a complicated bike like the Multi which has about 4 or 5 different ECU's something so simple & cheap allows you to tune the bike & on the 696/1100 a much simpler bike it's taken years to get these things tuned.

It turns out Redline can map your stock ecu for this mod using the Rexxer. Just tell him exactly what pods your using. The Rexxer will allow full tuning no o2 sensors. As far as the guys with a PCV you should contact Him directly & see what He can do.
  Quote from David at redline,

"I can do any kind of mapping you’d like. I can do a PCV version and a MOD map for a RexXer unit. Let me know how you would like for me to proceed. David"

 

David Lillard
President
Redline Performance Motorsports Inc.
7331 George Washington Memorial Highway
Yorktown, Va. 23692
Telephone: 757-989-5000
Fax: 757-989-3591
http://www.redlinemotors.com (http://www.redlinemotors.com)
david@redlinemotors.com

looks like I need to figure out how to take a ride through VA to get a custom map made for my 1100, 2" wide boom tubes, cams, and soon to be pods.

interesting to know someone on the east coast is doing this.

8 hour highway ride.....

With your mods I would make that trip ! Nothing like a good custom map to make a bike run like it should.

If I can take a couple vacation days, and there's some worthy rides along the way, it could be nice.  I haven't gotten a long ride in for years.

custom mapped pcv locally, or custom mapped rexxer weekend trip.  The choices.

why not do both.

not everyone has the rexxer

So our friend here at Redline Motorsports has Rexxer's.... expensive... "Map Editor" Dyno Mapping Software then?

that is what Chris from Daniele Moto told me

Hmm, So I can either get my ecu reflashed to DP Spec & Buy a PCV & get a dyno tune $550 for ECU & PCV + dyno time...

OR

Somehow get to this guy in VA 6 hours from me and have him custom tune my bike on the dyno and create a rexxer tune.

^^^ This sounds like a WAY better option. No PCV and only one thing to pay for.
 
Ducshop kit = ~$300
Rexxer dyno & flash = $300?? - Not sure on this. I wouldn't be buying the rexxer unit, just a flash for my ecu.
Bracket = $40

so round up to $700 and I might be close to an actual price. Hmm, worth it for the 696?

$700 is a hell of a lot cheaper than buying a new bike.  If you like everything about your 696, but want to squeeze some more power out of it and have something even more unique, why not?

Exactly, plus the insurance doubles if I move up to an 1100.

unless the frame stays the same....

I didn't even consider insurance costs...


Oh brother... that's alot of work to save $20 every 6 months...

More than that!

I'm 22. I would be almost 1000/yr vs my 480/yr now.

Hats off to everyone contributing to this effort  [beer] great community feel to it  [clap]
Question??? Does Redline sell the Rexxer units???
 I am getting one of the super brackets that Do work son and 2-skinny are working on plus a pod kit…my M1100 already has the HPE full exhaust on it and so I will be in the need for an ECU solution… Now the simplest thing would be to buy from a one stop shop….it would seem too good to be true…buying the Rexxer already with the right map in it for the bike that will remove the Lambdas etc…
Do Redline really have enough of a database that they can make a map for a bike without seeing it??? 
I am hoping the answer is yes but it is an impressive feat if it can be done…What do you all think??
Another question inspired by Ung….is the problem with resetting the service light resolved? Do we know?
Again I think this initiative is a great effort from all involved….bravo !! Thanks.

Maybe?


Will they give you a rexxer map for your specific setup. Yes

Will it be perfect or near the best of what a real dyno tune would be.

Not a chance.

Redline sells them according to the Rexxer manufacturer.

You'll have to call Redline to see the available maps.

We do know.  The Rexxer units for Siemens ECUs is STILL NOT able to reset your service indicator.  I'm frankly becoming a little tired of waiting for Rexxer to come up with updated firmware which allows their unit to do that which they said it would do at the point of purchase.  It would be nice if EVERYBODY who owns a Rexxer device would contact them and demand that this be addressed.  If its only me making a noise then they're not gonna hurry to raise priority of the issue on their "to do" list  >:(.

False advertising.. deliver a product that can do what it is advertised to do or refund the money, or a portion of it at least. For the change you paid ung, especially with the crazy aussie taxes you have, (if they apply for online purchases) I'd be damn pissed if I didn't get what I paid for.

Oh come on, this is NOT a big deal worth making a stink over. 

1st being annoyed at that light is silly.  It's not like a check engine light is on,  or the bike runs crappy,  it's a mile controlled indicator,  which most dealers can fix in 10 seconds of it bugs you that much.

There are many things worth fussing over in life,  this is far from one of them.

I get it,  you paid money for it,  however we all know you and others (including me)  primarily bought it for tuning,  the other features were just gravy on top.

Thanks for your opinion and valuable advice  [thumbsup].

You have no idea the reasons why I bought a Rexxer device  :-*.

Of course any Ducati dealer can reset the service icon - for me however my "local" Ducati dealer is far from local.  A visit to my closest dealer necessitates an entire day off work for the trip.  So having my own tool to reset the service indicator is more than just a cute bonus. 

Maybe - so as not to threadjack - any further debate on this subject ought occur here >>  http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=43335.msg829106#msg829106 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=43335.msg829106#msg829106)

UPDATE:

Heard back from fabricator. Price will be $50+ S&H for bracket. This bracket will also be powdercoated black. So, not a bad deal...

Hopefully we will have a "model" by end of week, we can tweak and adjust any measurements, and then send the final design off to have it made... Expect 2 weeks or less for delivery once we put in the order.

Right now, I have 13 potential players wanting this. If you have not sent me an email with your email, please do so I can put you on the list. Appreciate all the support and the patience... Should be along shortly... and that's a promise

Ouch! Have you checked with Rider Insurance? http://www.rider.com/ (http://www.rider.com/)
I'm older than you, of course, but my insurance is like $250/year.

Just re-quoted with them. Full coverage, minimum amounts, clean record.

$1006.00 /yr.

WTF

Rexxer custom map approx $600, plus 1-2 days of time.  Plus travel to VA (conservatively, 1 day of going there, one day going home, and hotel/camp while there)

PCV is around 280 in device, and 250-300 in labor plus 1 day. Local shops can do.

choices, choices

  I know that eliminating the λ sensors will achieve "the best" performance, but no one has really talked about the actual differences.  I mean, for race use the Rexxer tune seems that it would give you optimal mapping for your setup, especially for certain track conditions, maybe even tire variables, etc. that could be developed over time and re-flashed on an as-needed basis.  

  However, with all the time/effort involved for pretty much everyone, what is the actual "butt dyno"  feel for the difference? I mean, for riding around town and canyon carving on the weekends, is it worth the extra trouble over the PCV and a dyno tune- even if the overall cost is fairly comparable?  Time/effort is worth money too... and these aren't 150+ hp superbikes that are having an additional 20 hp wrung out of them...

If those choices were available to me, I'd forget the PCV without a second thought.

Since you asked..... Here's my thoughts: There are differences IMO but not in the end result, not in the "feel" and probably not in the power output or delivery.  The differences are in direction.  The endpoint - both correctly mapped - ought be pretty much the same.  

1) You can adapt your ECU's mapping with the addition of a PCV, can be done at a reputable Dynojet shop near you, works well.
2) Or have your ECU custom Rexxered on a Dyno, mapping the ECU directly via their ECU map editor software.

1) = A Piggy-back additional device to stock which modifies the ECUs management.
2) = An ECU which just does what you want - nothing additional to bolt on.... wire up...  go wrong.

For me #2 is a no-brainer.  But since that option isnt available to me I gotta run with #1 - which works very well, its just that using a secondary device to adapt the ECU is IMO not as nice a solution as just having the ECU do exactly what you want straight up.  Either way I doubt anybody could "feel" any difference coz as I've already said the outcome if they're both done right ought be equal.  Its just the method that's different.

Like mattc7 said..... "choices, choices".  Be happy you have 'em  [thumbsup].

One disadvantage I see to have a custom Rexxer map is that if you later change something about your setup you will need to have another map made, which for most people is very inconvenient due to the distance. With a PCV there are more tuners available and you could always use the autotune thing that Ung used and bypass the tuner altogether.

Conceptually I prefer the custom map, but it doesn't seem as flexible.

I'm not at the point where I want to drop enough loot to do this mod yet, but I'm down for a bracket to hang on to for later when I am ready. If you haven placed an order yet, add me to the list!

Im not well versed in bike tuning but I gave done some tuning on car ecu's, and I agree that the standalone ecu is the more elegant solution, and it also eliminates an extra point of potential failure. Why have 2 separate devices when you could have 1? that said, it doesn't seem like having a stand alone (rexxer) is an option that is readily available, or easily adjusted later so the pcv route is probbly the better route for most people. Gotta love fuel injection, trading the black art of carb tuning for the black art of computer tuning!

@ChrisH:  PM DoWorkSon to get on the list and your down payment in, order is being placed likely next week.

I think we can all agree that both options have pro's and con's.

Rexxer:
Pros- Eliminates a piggy back system, can re-program ecu to delete o2 sensors and change a cleaner solution, and can modify the bike more in depth.
Cons- Not widely popular(yet) and not many options in ways of tuning or mapping. Sure there are maps, but nothing specifically available for the different applications.

PC5:
Pros- Widely used, and many shops who can plug into it, dyno the bike, and get the best result. There are tune centers all across north America that can plug in and make changes to fit the bike. You can even plug in to the bike from home and make changes straight from your home computer if you want to. many add-ons for it such as the auto tune, quick shifter, and LCD display.

Cons- Cannot eliminate the o2 sensors and tune in closed loop. Not as clean, since you have the unit, and wires running everywhere. Cannot re-program the ecu like the rexxer




Oh, and a quick update. So far, we have had 10 people secure their bracket order. I am taking deposits right now to secure one when the final order is made. The price will be $50 for a powdercoated black bracket. So, if you are thinking about it, hurry up and let me know because we should be putting in the order within a week or two, and probably will not be making any orders in the future(unless there is an overwhelming demand).

there's another option

maybe you can get them just to delete the O2 loop and not custom map for less.
then run a PC V

True.... But you are paying a ton of money for that... I don't know how these companies justify charging $250+ to plug your ecu into a computer, load up a map, and then mail it back to you....

I'm sure there are other costs associated with it, but that just seems rediculous to me. It took me 30 second to load a map on my pc5...  Not sure how it can't cost that much to reflash an ecu...

Maybe we should get a group buy going where someone with a rexxer unit reflashes our ecu's for us and we all donate some money to offset the cost they initially paid...

Same with power commander, someone pays to have bike dynoed and tuned. Then everyone pitches in for the map if they want it..

Yup, thats kinda how I feel too.

Which is pretty similar to what I have ended up with, except that I'm also running Autotune to bring it all together.  Gives me the greatest flexibility, which is fun..... but once you have your setup finalised, I do think the theoretical neatness of a custom mapped ECU is the ultimate solution. 

What I've been contemplating is finding an ecu hacker from the car scene that has access to a newer gen monster and offering to pay them to see I they can come up with a tuning solution. I mean, for my old car I tuned it myself using freeware tuning software. I had to open up my ecu to solder on some reflashable EPROMs. The total cost was less then $100 and that was buying the hardware to do the flashing, the EPROMs, cables, etc. Seems like someone should be able to modify an existing piece of software for the maps and such, and just figure out a way to interface with the monsters computer. I wish I knew how to program. I have a couple spare 696 ecu's if anyone knows anyone that may be up to the task.

Standard "User Units" link to a specific ECU, and will not flash a second one unless the stock map has been returned to the initial bike first. It could probably be a security weakness in the software, however I have no time to really hack into my rexxer, especially if I mess something up trying to fix it (I do programming and know a few languages well, however, my skills aren't sharp as they used to be)

To get a professional credit compatible rexxer, you need to lay out 1600 euro ~= $2300 US. This gives you 10 flashes. After this you can buy extra "batches" of flash "credits"
10 - 1,110.66 EUR  =  $1600 USD
20 - 1,904.00 EUR  =  $2700 USD
30 - 2,380.00 EUR  =  $3400 USD

Then additional cost of approx 100 euro or $160 USD per cable so that you can flash many bikes (you'ld never make profit flashing only 1 ECU type).

If you want to be able to tune/edit maps, then it's an additional $3000 EUR = $4300 USD, and $1100 EUR = $1600 for the Lamda probes that allow the software to see AFR from the exhaust.

So to itemize a list of possible "Cost effective Solutions"
1 Rexxer
30 extra maps
software
1 of each cable (2 for now, just ducs)
lambda sensors

you're in for $12,000 plus s/h.  At 40 maps, you cut even charging $300 a map, plus shipping of the ECU. At which point you need to order another set of 30 maps, and the price goes up.  Marginal cost does drop substantially over time, however, unless you're flashing hundreds of maps, the value for the shop charging $250-300 is minimal.

Rexxer, and similar companies spend months on R&D per ECU type, and then if they make a map for each bike, add in power costs to dyno tune, and bike time.  I doubt the unit is costly hardware wise, but the backend is definitely very pricey to deconstruct the ecu code and alter it.

You need to move high volumes in order to bring prices back to earth.  The Fixed costs here are very large, but the only varying cost is that of the credits, so eventually given enough maps, the cost per map comes down to a piddling ~ $114, and depending on initial pricing and volume, it's highly possible you may never get nearly that low.


With that said, anyone who wants to put in enough money, and ship their exhaust to redline for mounting and tuning on my bike this summer (I will not likely make this trip without minimizing my financial hit, it's just not enough of a return to have a more elegant solution, to a plain functional one), let me know, and you can donate via paypal, however, it's ~= $600 per map, plus hotel for me to get there  [evil]

I could use a vacation though!
;D

Shit, for that price could fly you there and ship your bike...

Is $600 what redline charges for a custom map?

Forget it then. I'll still buy the bracket but I'm not spending $1,000 to get a new ecu and intake for a 696. Maybe if I was riding an 848, but not worth the money on a 696. I'll stick with a DP spec reflash and air filter. ~$300 total for this.

$300 for flashing the map, and $300 for making the custom map, so in total 600, and it is a 1-2 day process depending on service schedule, drop off time, etc.

I totally can understand their justification for this, as if you look at my prior post, they probably aren't making much money through the process.  Dyno for 4-8 hours (possibly more), plus $250ish to flash for them, is reasonable to understand the cost, however it is still hard to stomach.

A PCV, is going to run $300 for the unit, and another 250-300 for the tune.  So it's not a huge cost savings to go this route, however the travel, and time is minimized. For the PCV to maximize effectiveness, you must already have the ecu flashed to remove the lambda sensors.  This is another $300 if you send out, or 550 (at the exchange rate when I bought mine) for the rexxer unit. So total PCV cost is actual 900-1150, and one could see the custom made rexxer map as a substantial piece of savings then.

 I value my time highly, and 3-4 days of traveling, for me, is very costly in both fatigue and money.

any airbox removal hints? I haven't even looked at it to see what's required to remove it, but from what I hear it's not too complicated

It's very easy. Took about 30 min. The longest part was removing the tank and the tank covers.

With the bike running is the intake noise noticeable?

Being ~$300 in on this project now are you planning get the custom reflash and dyno tune?

I have had the bike in pieces since starting this project, so I have not been able to start it up yet with filters on.

I'm imagining that there will be noticeable intake noise... Which i'm hoping for. Maybe ung can chime in on this since he has them already.

I am going to have a custom map made at the local dyno shop. I am not going to re-flash though... At least not yet. I cannot justify spending $250+ just to remove o2 sensors.

Much more noticeable then when it isnt running  [cheeky].

Yup, there is quite a satisfying and rather noticeable induction roar when you haul on the throttle  [evil].

Status check B.......

Checked with fabricator today, they are very busy and we are basically next in line in their work queue.  They told me they will produce the prototype Monday or Tuesday and once DoWorkSon and I confirm fitment, then we will have them produce our quantity and coat them.  Sorry it's taking longer than anticipated, who knew fabrication shops are recession proof...  :-\

Whew, just finished reading all 10 pages of this thread. Count me in if you figure out a coil mount solution. (Charcoal canister removed)

They aren't really.  Most of the less-good ones no longer are working, which is why the rest are so busy!

PM DoWorkSon if you are interested to get in on the list, we will likely only be doing 1 batch and the final order will be placed in a week or so.  There IS a solution to mount the front coil, don't let that deter you.  We will actually be working on a solution today and will have some pictures to give you an idea of options you have for that front coil.

UPDATE:

Today, 2-skinny and I worked on mounting the coil. Due to the length of the wire/connector, you are pretty limited in where you can mount it... So, here is what we came up with...

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/007-4.jpg)

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/006-3.jpg)

Basically, there is a bracket on at the front right part of the frame, which I believe was for the charcoal canister.

We simply cut a bracket out of steel strips you can buy at most hardware stores, drilled some holes, and secured it(this is the metal strip with the three bolts in it, the other one mounts the horn and rectifier).

To mount the coil flush on this strip of metal, we used some tubular metal spacers, that can be found at any hardware store. The coil is not flat on either side, so mounting it to a flat surface is impossible. The spacers raised up the mounting points on the coil in a sense, so everything could be evenly mounted across the surface of the metal strip.  Tightened down with some bolts... and done.

Sorry for crappy picture quality, in a dark garage. But, it seems to work and nothing comes into contact with the coils or bracket.

Hyperstacks ordered today. 

Hopefully this weekend I'll tear the airbox out, and get them installed, and coils taken care of.

and then when the brackets are done, ready to run.

UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE!

Got the model for the bracket today...

Seen here.

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/008-4.jpg)

This is just the base model. The final design will have a center design cut out and will be powdercoated black..

Took it home to get a fit and.... just about perfect!

Needed one minor adjustment on the right side mounting point, but other than that... Fit perfectly.

Without bolts/sitting freely in bike

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/009-4.jpg)

With the battery tray bolted in

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/015-1.jpg)

ECU hooked up and wires installed

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/014.jpg)

Top Down view

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/010-2.jpg)

Shot from front

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/013-2.jpg)

The fabricator forgot to bend the small arm that holds the starter solenoid however, it will be bent in final production... Still going to look like this..

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/004-8.jpg)

I plan on placing the order this week. So far, price is at $50 for a powdercoated black final product. Anyone who has been on the fence about it, your last chance is slowly coming up!

i sure do like the maltese cross for many reasons but i do not feel it jives with the Ducati marquee. just my opinion, many love it - i know there's a billet clutch cover like that from Motowheels, and for a long long time SpeedyMoto had the little billet alt-cover available with just such a design.

I agree. I was just playing around with different designs and drew that. It could easily be changed to something more ducati-ish.... Anyone have any ideas??? I mainly wanted the center cut out to provide cooling to ecu(does it warm up being used???) and to cut down on weight. Not dead set on it, and I can make it just an open hole or something.

How about....?

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/24-185Mud-Flap-Girl-Posters.jpg)


 ;D

i would just cut out the dynamic D logo. really big dynamic D
any idea when final notice might be before ordering?

I'm fine the way it is.  I don't think it's necessary, however I'm all for lightness.

No one will see it (besides the installer and/or mechanic, so the design isn't too important, is it?)

This week. I plan on putting in final # of units to be made by Friday. Everyone who has put in deposits has been so patient so I don't want to wait any longer... Plus, I wanna get mine installed ASAP and start riding as well!

I don't think the "Maltese Cross" look of the cut out was intentional per-se.  As DoWorkSon said, it was just messing with designs and that option offers strength and weight savings, and airflow.  At this point, it may be best to just live with it especial since you won't really see it and it could be more cost associated with a diff. design...

Looking GOOD!

Oh yeah...

We also installed Air filters, tank, and all wiring.... and everything fits perfectly... .. So no issues with clearances

Considering this as a possible cutout design:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v92/2-Skinny/gear3d.jpg)


But may just go with a "circle" to make life easy.  Again, seriously not going to see it after you install...

Thoughts?

i may be interested later this summer, just cant afford the whole package right now. anyone considering going in on another run later?

I think if the fabricator already has the machines setup as is, it is silly to change something that doesn't need changing.  It's going to be covered by the ECU, and hidden under the tank.  Leave as is, and get the show on the road!

Like the way you think!  Keeping it same.  Order being placed Friday. 


LAST CALL!!!!!

DucatiTorrey:  If you think you will have money, as I have stated in this thread before, I would advise spending $50 on the bracket now and saving up.  We likely won't do another run of these, so you will be on your own or at the mercy of another manufacturer selling a complete package- there isn't one selling one now.

I think the cutout should be for maximum weight savings (see below)  or not at all. I am fine with leaving it as is or whatever is easier. But, if there are any among us who want the lightest thing possible, they should speak up.
(http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/ab114/Tywash/cutout.jpg)

I vote for leaving it alone and just get it done. My intake kit should be here this week so I am already chomping at the bit.

how much for one in magnesium [cheeky]

No.   No union jack on the mostró.  Even if it is hidden

+1. This ain't no muckaluckin' trumpet

I'll price it like everything else in magnesium: $3k.... part is in the mail  [cheeky]

so's the check! [laugh]

Probably not. This has been a lot of work for the two of us with full time jobs and other commitments. Especially since we aren't making any money off of it. However, later on down the road, if one still have not been released by TPO, waspworks, ducshop, or any of the other companies, and the demand is high, we might put together a small install kit. However the price will be more than it is now... The price of $50 is basically at cost.

Secondly, I would love to make this out of carbon fiber or some other lightweight metal... But, prices go up when that happens, and since this is a one time order, each bracket has to be the same, and everyone has different preferences of what they want to pay, we have to keep it simple.

If anyone has any experience with carbon fiber, I would love to hear some input or see about getting one made. But, I just don't have the knowledge in that.

LAST CALL PEOPLE!!!


Order is being place tomorrow morning (Pacific time). PM DoWorkSon for payment details.

Note to 1100 owners buying stack kits.

The HyperStacks come with the Marelli-sized-stepper/idel filter.  The idle/stepper motor piping for the Siemens bikes (Hyper EVO, monster 1100(s)) is larger diameter, equal to that of the crankcase breather hose, so request kits with 2 of these larger filters/adapters, rather than the 3/4" and small filter.

Other option, is to insert the bottom of the smaller filter into the stepper motor hose, and tighten around the stepper hose to hold on.  I ended up doing this after realizing it didn't fit the other way, and wanting to get a ride in (ziptied ecu and starter to the frame going around the block.  So far so good

I just realized this again when I received my stacks, and had forgot to mention the sizing of the idle motor tubing!

Good Info!


The orders are in and we expect them to be done early next week at which point we will package them and ship to all who requested one.  Thanks everyone for your patience!

I am glad you mentioned this. I would have been upset if I started the install and found this out by suprise. I am ready for this bracket now. My intake kit showed up this weekend.

Since you can place the little filters end into the hose for the stepper its not so big deal. Not a problem to get as is,  just can be done better

Any more news on these? "Early next week" has come and gone. Not complaining, just asking.

We talked to fab shop on Tuesday. They did not have the metal in stock and had to order it. So they said end of week.... Emailed today and have not heard back yet.... I guess these shops don't like to stick to the time frames they have given... They are ordered and now it's just a waiting game.

do you actually look like big black? whenever i read your posts, i hear his voice.

He is an average-height white guy, athletic build. So no- he doesn't look a thing like him...

Certain parts are... Just ask my girlfriend. :o


But, spoke to shop today and the brackets are being painted tomorrow and we will be picking them up tomorrow evening or Thursday. And shipping out this weekend. They did not have the aluminum in stock so it had to be ordered and then we had to wait for the next paint day. Will post up some pics this weekend with everything installed!

You did mean powder coated right? I would rather have a bare part if they aren't being powder coated anymore.

He means powder coated. 

Got a call from shop- brackets are done.  Pictures coming tomorrow morning.  Stay tuned.

 [thumbsup]

Brackets are here and done!

A quick pic with more to come....

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/IMG00136-20110428-1036.jpg)

They are very light and sturdy....

Going to do install this weekend and put together a little "how to install" post with a list of hardware/parts needed... More to come!

WOW!


Really High Quality!

sick.   How much is Shipping?  I want

/impatience off

He shot an email out to people who ordered.

Check your email matt... You should have gotten one.

congratualtions guys and such a nice looking product with such a quick turnaround.

find yourself a distributor and go mass production :D

Spam folder had it.

Outstanding work guys

Thanks for the positive feedback guys.  We are excited to get these out to you guys and installed on our end.  Stay tuned people looking for more- if we get enough interest we may do another order soon and we're looking into possibly doing some new projects...though this one about killed us. 

Enjoy the "Proof of Life" pics...

Awesome! I can't wait to get my hands on this. Thank you guys for the hard work. It is very much appreciated. [thumbsup]

Very VERY nice.  With all the new monster mod projects... us vintage guys are gonna get left behind!

They turned out great!  Thank you for all of your hard work.  Sending paypal this evening, cant wait.

They look great.   Throwing a little something towards running this place would be a great gesture.    [beer]

Looks really good!  Don't know how I missed this entire thread until this morning, but I read all 14 pages and totally want one.   [clap] 

If another order is an option, absolutely count me in!


For those who've done it; I'm very curious to know what the gains actually are with pods, PCV and open Termis. 

Stay tuned, we are looking into another production run possibilities... this time will be a little less "amateur"...

So I started to install bracket today...

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/010-4.jpg)

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/009-5.jpg)

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/010-3.jpg)

Crankcase and PCV filter attached

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/012-3.jpg)

Attached to Left side of frame.... NOTE: The bolt is loosely sitting in there, I need to get a nut and washer to tighten down. I used a small spacer that came off airbox to fill the gap. When tightened down it will be straight and not at an angle.

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/011-7.jpg)

Underneath the battery tray there is a small gap due to the frame shape and other mounting points being  at different heights... Grinded down a metal spacer(hence the grind marks on it) and placed that in gap.

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/014-1.jpg)



So, everything works and is nice and snug. I need to get a few nuts to mount ECU and for the right side mounting point... But, it works!

oil those little filters!

looks awesome

They're headed out tomorrow... late night packing  [coffee]

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v92/2-Skinny/IMG00140-20110430-0005.jpg)

I see mine!

I got the tracking number at 5am. Proceeded to throw phone into wall for waking me up.

Thanks guys!  ;D

I installed the bracket today and finished up the bike with my newly ceramic coated exhaust, and am in the process of painting the brake calipers(one side done).... The bike fired up and ran very nicely.... I was expecting some issues with the filters, however, I believe that the PC5 with the map helped a bit. The bike had NO surging, and the RPM's stayed nice and level and it sounded great.

Its pretty nice to hear intake going and you can hear each filter sucking in air. Also, there is a TON of room up under the fuel tank... This allowed me to clean up some wiring, re route some things and secure a lot of little components that were so secure before.

The only snag I ran into was that because the battery now sat on top of the bracket, the negative battery cable did not reach. It was about 1/2" too short... So, I had to make a little "L" shaped bracket to fill in the gap and then wrapped in shrink tube and electrical tape to protect it.

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/003-6.jpg)

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/008-5.jpg)

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/002-4.jpg)

The filters through the frame

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/014-3.jpg)

Overall shot

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/013-5.jpg)


For our loyal and (very) patient followers who put their money into making the project a reality, the brackets are on their way. Because people were willing to put in their hard earned money(to lower the cost of manufacturing) and thus, save everyone who wanted pod filters a ton of money, the time has finally come..

It's been a tough project for us. A lot of time/money invested through design, testing, waiting and waiting on shop, driving, packaging, shipping, and installing... I can definitely see why parts cost so damn much, it aint easy. Luckily, it worked out.... And we got a quality product for all those loyal and patient people...

It was definitely fun... however, we are on the fence about doing it again. Like I originally said, we weren't doing this for money, and we definitely did not make a profit. All in all myself and Ryan definitely came out in the negative dollar amount to do this... But it was fun, and a great way to give back to the community.

If we were to do it again, the price would be more per bracket, because, after all the headache and time spent, well, I want some money for beer.  [beer]

Took the air box out last night. Went to the hardware store to and the two main sizes of nuts I picked up were M5x.5 for the bottom coil and battery tray, also M6x1.00 for the ECU. Hope this helps someone.

A lot of the hardware from the airbox can move right over to be used on bracket. This being the bolts and there are some metal spacers, which I used on the left side frame mount point. All you need are some nuts for the bolts to tighten everything down and your golden...

Oh, and I would find a rubber or metal(rubber would probably be better for vibration) spacer to go under the battery tray mout point. It's about 1/4" thick and will raise the bracket so it is perfectly flush with the right/left side mount point.

I got my bracket today! It looks like a nice piece, guys. Thank you for all your hard work and good communication through the project.

Glad you're pleased!  Post pictures and feedback on your install.

Got the bracket, love it  ;D

looking to take out air box and fit a ballistic battery this should cut about 10-12 pounds off the bike

now since i still have my canisters were do i put my coils?

The vertical coil stays on it's old bracket.

The horizontal coil can ziptie to the frame cross member.

Do you mean charcoal canister...?

Starting fitting the bracket last night. The fit seems to be very "general". This is not a review, just my observations as I go along. I have been a fan of this project since I saw it. That being said I am ready for generation 2.

(http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/ab114/Tywash/Monster/monster003.jpg)
Already  had to drill out 1 hole for mounting. This is not a big deal, just a hassle.
(http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/ab114/Tywash/Monster/monster004.jpg)
Second mounting hole for battery not lining up. Is it not meant to be used?
(http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/ab114/Tywash/Monster/monster002.jpg)
I wasn't sure since the second hole couldn't fit a bolt either.
(http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/ab114/Tywash/Monster/monster006.jpg)
If I zip tie the solenoid, I can't mount this these relays the way they were. I might be able to flip them around 90 degress. I think the next revision should try to address this. Also, get rid of the zip tie thing and put the prongs back on there. I am anti-zip tie unless used for wire tidyness.

Just need to get my spacers together and will post my setup when I am done. Probably be a little bit since I am busy this week.

As far as drilling out the holes, what hardware are you using? The stock Hardware might not always work. I secured everything without drilling anyhing. I used spare bolts/nuts that I had and everything mounted up perfectly, securely, and fit good.

As far as the left battery tray hole, we did mess that up. It was supposed to line up and it was slightly off. I used a zip tie on this side to secure the tray to the bracket, along with the pcv filter. I used a nut/bolt on right side, and did not drill out the hole. drilling out the hole would be better, but it was plenty secure how I set it up.

As far as the solenoid, I did not have to flip anything. It should be in same potion it would be if the airbox was in place. The only thing i noticed that had to be adjusted was the positive battery terminal. Other than that, everything should fit where it was stock.

If you have any questions PM me... But this was our first run, and there are always improvements to be made

I used the stock bolts for mounting. The right side mount will not bolt up if you change the bolt size. It's threaded on the bike, not an open hole. Drilling the hole one size larger wasn't a big deal, to be honest it could have been the thickness of the powdercoat that did it. The bracket fits securely, but not perfectly.

The solenoid was fine. It's the relays in the center of the picture that get displaced from the brass nut on the battery box. Putting the solenoid so close to the battery box moves the relay's mounting hole towards the rear or down in the picture.

I understand this is a first run, that is why I didn't come on here all hellfire and brimstone. I am very appreciative of the effort you guys put forth. Any criticism should be taken constructively so that we all may benefit from future endeavors that seek to improve upon the foundation you guys have laid down. I pointed out this stuff so the next guy doesn't have to wonder if he's crazy or got  a bad bracket.

No one has done a single thing to come up with a resolution for the airbox removal...except you two.

Thanks for the input Tywash.  We realized only after production that that battery holder bolt hole was off, our appologies- but like you discovered drilling another hole or using a zip tie will work depending on what you are comfortable with.

Trust, if we do another production run those issue will be fixed...

The OPs have done a great job of making this happen and all credit to 'em for that  [clap].  But its not true to say that they're the only ones, WASP had a M696/M1100 kit out long ago.

Agreed. 

We were the only one to attempt to make something available more quickly. 

AND much more cheaply.

Well done guys!  [thumbsup]

Well done guys, I hope it all works out for you and the end users. it looks like you are getting there.. A bit of messing around and filing/drilling etc for the end users but a good way for the frugal to save a few dollars.
If nothing else I am sure now the two instigators will have a new found appreciation of the scale of work involved in getting something like this together with one bracket, let alone the front bracket for the coil or a complete plug and play kit..

As you know, WaspWorks is up and running with FULL "Plug & Play" kits for these machines now (including M+Hyp EVO and 796) and is the only real alternative for those without the mechanical aptitude or the spare time to run around sourcing all the huge amount of components required to do this job with an OEM fit and finish.


That is debatable...
At the end of the day I think a lot of people that attempt this job would be surprised at the total cost by the time they include all components/service like:
PC5 with O2 emulators, Stainless steel hardware, an actual front coil mount bracket rather than simply zip tying coils in space, Correctly/flow simulated and dyno tested designed oversize intake manifolds (considerably larger than anyone else supplies), oversize K&N filters (considerably larger than anyone else supplies), pre filter socks, etc.
This is without even thinking about any run around time sourcing any/all of these parts.
So no, I dont think it is "AND much more cheaply"

Greg.

btw all those looking for a second ECU to use.. there's one on ebay right now. starting at 52

WASP- Thank you for the kind words/truths.

This was never meant to be equivalent to any "professional" kit, certainly not as nice as WaspWorks was/is.  This was a "stop gap" option for people interested in assembling a kit to run open filters/ecu options on their own.  We expressed that Waspworks kit was cream of the crop, we also acknowledged that this bracket only gave the end user the option to install how they want (assembling whatever hardware was needed included).

As two amateurs with limited experience (and definitely limited funds) we did our best to offer a clean/useful product for those interested.  We realize its not 100% perfect, had we taken more time/money to have an additional couple prototypes made it would have been, but that wasn't an option here.  I think all who purchased one had the understanding that it would be a DIY install- and that is part of the fun!

Greg, update your site.

AND

Maybe it won't be cheaper/ maybe it will.  If someone wants to take the time and develop their own kit, it will likely cost less- the kit we've assemble was a good amount less, and that includes making the bracket AND making a front coil mount (from steel, not a zip tie).  The bottom line is, assembling a kit from a used/ small seller/ ebay PC and the filters/stacks and using a reasonably stocked home garage is likely to get this assembled for at least some savings, but it comes down to what your time is worth.  If you are into DIY at all then you have already made the concession that your time (or some of it) is worth a cost savings...

@waspworks....

I don't think it's very cool to come on here and bash our project and then promote your own.

I have said numerous times that you guys have an AWESOME setup. And I would of purchased one in a second had you sold them. The quality is far superior to anything out there... But, you know that in June of 2010, when you said "a couple of weeks" that did not happen.

we aren't professionals at this. We are two guys with zero knowledge in designing and fabrication. We have normal day jobs, and were working from our home computer and in our garage in our spare time, fronting well over a thousand dollars of our money to go through with it.

Sure our bracket ain't perfect. We don't have the access to te resources to perfect it. We did the best we could with what we had, and it worked. If we were to make more there are several things we would change and improve.

We aren't making money and aren't competing with you for sales. We lost money in this endeavor. But, when something is promised and does not materialize, don't be mad or surprised if someone else fills the void.