Ducati Monster Forum

I make my living as a painter.

At some point I'll write up a how to, but in the meanwhile I'd be happy to field questions to get you started in the right direction so ask them here if you like.

How hard is it to fix the old fiberglass, can't afford your services yet  ;D


1993 900SS with broken fairing right side at the turn signal, 39,000 miles, pretty handy with tools, ex Suzuki tech, ummmmmm  oh yeah I fell down.

How do you prep the belt covers for paint? 

Thanks

Thanks for offering .. I will keep it in mind.. wt:

You helped a member of TOB change decals on his S4RT.  I believe that there is a flat clear over the decal and I would love to know if there is a DIY solution for a change.
Thanks
Luke

How about the types of paint you will need.

If I went to the paint store, would I need just primer/color/clear?

What kind of primer would I ask for? Should I sand the primer coat? if so, with what? what about color? sand between each coat? or just at the end?

Thanks!

Depends really on what you're doing to them. A real high quality gloss job? Ask Nate.

As for me, I cleaned them with some dishsoap, dried them in the oven at about 150. Then I waited til they cooled and sprayed a couple of thin layers of American Tradition Satin BBQ Paint. Once dry, I cured them in the oven at about 200. Repeated that a couple times and wala...

(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j135/JoshFan1980a/New%20Ducati/DSC01769.jpg)

Thanks for the paint tips.  My problem is more with the prep.  The previous owner or three didn't keep the bike very clean so there is old oil residue, and the covers had been painted once before.  That paint has mostly flaked off but some is still there.  I took a dremel with the wire brush attachment and tried to scrub off the old paint and some of it came off but not all of it. 

I guess what I'm asking is can/should I sand the old paint off?  Or is a chemical remover better?  I don't want to scar the surface with sand paper or use the wrong chemicals and eat up the cover.  Maybe a real fine grit sand paper? 

Hi DucPainter!

Yep, planning on finally tearing the ol' girl down to the bare metal this summer and getting her all purty. She runs like a demon, now time to cleaner her back up and make her look as good as she sounds. ;)

I picked up a 30gal air compressor and two paint guns recently (large and small) but I'm a total newb with painting so will definitely be picking yer brain in the next few months! 8)

dj

And so we have this info somewhere,

Ducati Dark Paint for DIYers.

PPG: 291.500

Color Rite: 7575

(close to matching) PlastiKote(rattle can): GM 7179

I've used the Color Rite (rattle can for a seat cowl) and thus far it's been spot on.

I've been with my son in the hospital....

I'll catch up...

The old SSs are not exactly fiberglass. They're FRP (fiberglass reinforced plastic) and can be repaired with glass or I've used SEM problem plastic repair. I prefer the latter. It's no harder than any glass repair except I always reinforce the back side, and just fill the front. Fiberglass-Evercoat makes a good FRP filler.

I wash them with a good cleaner to remove oil and grease and then alchohol after the water has dried.
Scuff with a scotchbrite pad and re-clean with alcohol and let dry completely.

I use adhesion promoters and urethanes, but Krylon fusion adheres well, but isn't fuel or oil resistant.

Not really.

I don't think I put the decals on that job. What I did was to remove the red decals and re-spray and re-clear.

If it's the one I'm thinking of.

Are you in MI?

That's a bunch of questions.   ;D

I use a sandable modified epoxy surfacer, an activated urethane sealer, urethane base and activated acrylic urethane clear.

Sand for primer with P180. Sand primer with P400 dry, or P600 wet. Apply sealer and let dry according to manu recs. Only sand color to remove dust nibs...it shouldn't go on peely. Once you're satisfied with your color wait for the recommended time and then clear. 2-3 coats is good. I usually then sand the clear with P800 or 1000 wet and re-clear.

Don't use chemical strippers on plastic unless you find one that's recommended. It will undoubtedly make it swell because of all the bare plastic.

I'd sand with 400 dry.

Thanks ducpainter.  That's kind of what I was leaning towards but didn't want to screw it up either way. 

Keep in mind that a lot of sanding will change the light texture, if any, on plastic.

As always when sanding let the paper do the work.

best wishes to you and yours.

Thanks...

all is well.

Q in regard to hi-temp paints.  Specifically for engine use. (not talking the VHT rattlecan stuff)  What out there is available commercially for use with an airgun? (thus it could be tinted or mixed to color match)  Recommendations?  Any recommendations to get good bonding of paint to factory engine paint? (normally application is to strip factory paint and prep bare case but without disassembly -- or too much disassembly)

Glad to hear your son is doing ok!

Check out Sherwin-Williams   'Flame-Proof'. It is available in many standard colors and can be custom mixed. It has a 1200⁰
rating.
For engine cases I don't get too crazy because they don't get hot enough to actually affect automotive urethanes. There are several adhesion promoters available to make the prep easier. The key is whether the factory coating is in good condition. Also as always with coatings....clean...clean....clean.

So Ducpainter, I'm in the process of painting up my engine, and I'm going to remove all the covers (alternator, clutch side, cam bearing, and valve covers) and paint those seperately, so I can bake them a little to cure (is that a good idea?) Are you saying I can use regular paint on these parts and not the ceramic "engine paint" that really would help me out. Also, I'd like to paint the cases as they're a little beat up, but I really didn't want to split them and dissassemble the motor. Do you think that regular automotive urethane rattle cans would hold up on the cases and jugs?

Justin

++++ 1 

If by regular paint you mean catalyzed urethanes....then yes.  Engine cases never reach the destructive temp of those coatings, which is about 350⁰ F.

Cylinders are a different story depending on the engine type.

I've used the same stuff on air cooled cylinders and not had complaints. YMMV

See the posts above about S-W products...HOK also makes a great hi temp black if that's your choice of color.

doh, I missed a whole string of posts and didn't see this right away. Hope your is doing well!

Thanks to all the well wishers.

He's doing fine.

It is scary when your little one needs surgery though.

 :o Surgery...!!  will be praying bro..!!  take care..!

Yipes; hope all is well for you and yours  ...

added this Q from a new spacific thread below; some great pointers here, thx ...

Has anyone repainted & clear coated a "Dark" tank? and the other parts, the front fender, fairing, rear seat cowel?

I'm thinking of touching up, then clear gloss, semi-gloss or satin clear-coat laquour urithane finish to protect the Dark tank.  The stock paint seems to be easily scratched, minor scratches on the seat side with a minor dimple per side on the tank show up with the white primer coat.  Thoughts, experiances & suggestions appreciated.

Cheers DuciD  [moto]

I always clear them.

Sometimes I use a pre-mixed flat, and other times I'll custom flatten a gloss.

The problem in trying to add a clear coat to a stock dark is you need to sand to get adhesion, but you can't sand the stock single stage metallic dark without changing the appearance of the metallic.

You will need to paint and clear.

so you never use a single stage with a flattening agent to do dark jobs?

Nope.

It can be done that way.

Dust control is always an issue with single stage...in my world anyway.

I'm going to be painting a Dark fender soon.  Is the GM 7179 Plasti-Kote gloss or matte finish?  If it's gloss is there a way to make it matte for a better match?  I'd rather spend $5 on a can at the store than $35 to order the Color Rite brand.

Thanks,
Scott

You could probably hit it with matte clear.

I don't use rattle cans so I don't know about the Plast-Kote.

Color-Rite is ridiculously expensive for the quantity they sell.

Thanks; ok lots to think about;  this project quickly got religated to the "off season" Dec - Feb.

1Q ... so I understand.  Can I repaint then clear gloss the "Dark" matalic; or is trhere an issue with the metailc in the dark paint?  is is tyher another way to get good adhesion on the dark that i was hoping to save as a part of the history of the bike.

Any method of obtaining adhesion that eliminates sanding is a compromise.

Yes, Krylon makes a cheap matte clear and I think there are some others around.  Good to know about the Color-rite before I spent my money on it.

Scott

It will be fine for a fender.

I don't recommend non catalyzed products for tanks.

They just don't hold up.

You're assuming I'm coordinated enough not to spill gas on my fender ;)

Coordinated enough?     :-\

I'm pretty sure you know where the filler is.   ;D

I'm here to help DIYers.

If you want to talk business please contact me through my site.

Ok I'll look at your site.  Nice work / examples.

More Q's.... so would you say it would be easier to just paint it black (or that dark ducati blue which I also like) and skip the hastles of the dark metalic?.   

IF I did sand and clearcoat what grade would you prep with on that black metalic?

Also I'd like to get the deep clearcoat finish I notiec you recommended the urithane clcoat; is that the most durable clcoat product out there? how many coats would you put on?

There are as many different 'right' ways to do it as there are painters.

My experience with darks is there isn't much paint on them from the factory...so what I would do is...

Clean with a wax and grease remover, thoroughly sand with 400 dry but try not to sand through to metal, reclean with a post sanding cleaner, seal with an activated sealer, color, and clear. Activated urethane clear is about the best you can use for automotive/moto use. Use whatever color you want....it's the same amount of work.

I normally use at least 3 coats...depending on just how nice you want it you can sand the clear and re-clear.

ride on brother  [moto] ... thanks for answering all the q's ... and sharing your wisdome is appreciated.

Yes; the factory Dark is applied thin, on a white primer base, Ducati should be a little more concientious of how this holds up over time ...

I'm thniking the full on gloss would be a nice touch, your professional opinion?

The question of gloss is a personal not professional opinion.

I prefer gloss.  It shows everything. The beauty and the beast...if you will.

I'll tell you up front Ducati paints those tanks low gloss for a reason.

They take a fair amount of surfacing to look good glossy.

ha-haaaaaaaa!  Thanks for the professional opinion re: gloss [cheeky]. 

Gloss shows her beauty  by letting the sunlight reflect and caressing her curves ....

So I read through the thread but I'm still a little confused. I've never painted anything in my life so please be "simple" with the lingo. I lowsided my bike and scratched up my clutch cover. The scratches are only 2 inches long and 1 inch wide.

I can barely see the damage from 10 feet so instead of buying a new clutch engine cover, I was thinking of paintmatching the existing engine color. But to perform this work, I  have some conditions and questions

1) Since I have no paint tools, I'd prefer to just just rattlecan if possible. If not thats fine, I could probably borrow someones paint tools.
2) I'd prefer to paint directly on the bike. I would rather mask everything off than take off the clutch cover to do the work.
3) How do I prep the surface? Do need to sand off all the scratches first? What grit should I use? Can you provide some insight into this? Do I need to polish the surface first and then roughen prior to spray?
4) Is there a process to paint matching the existing engine color (mixing different colors together etc.) or is the traditional ducati silver a common color I can buy off the shelf. If the latter, can you provide a paint code and brand to match?

1) Rattle can is not particularly solvent/oil resistant, but many people use them. It will stain if you spill.

2) I'm assuming you have a wet clutch. Masking will work. Cleaning the surfaces thoroughly will be the key to success.

3)The scratches must be sanded out or they will 'telegraph' through the fresh paint. The grit used depends on the extent of the damage...whether any filling or priming is necessary. I can't really tell without seeing the damage. Can you see aluminum?

4) I've never come up with an exact match. My opinion is that Ducati uses a generic silver engine enamel. I don't believe there are any color chips, and I know it's not the same as any tank/frame color.

If you have to do it with rattle cans, try a can of Dupli-Color high performance silver wheel coating. The code on the can is CWP101000, and it's sold at a lot of auto parts stores (NAPA, etc) up here in Canada. It's not a match, but you do have to look twice to catch the difference. 

That's a good tip!

Another thought, if it's just the raised area on the clutch cover sand down the outer circle of flat surface and then polish.  Make sure you sand enough to get rid of the scratches and then progress to something like 400 grit.  After that a polishing bonnet on an electric drill and some polishing compound and you're in business.  It take a little control not to sand past where you want and you may want to clear coat the exposed aluminum when your done, but polishing aluminum is pretty easy.  If you don't clear coat you may have to repolish by hand every few weeks with a fine compound and a rag to keep a great shine.

I only mention this because it avoids having to paint.

Scott

I got great advice on the old site and my belt covers and sprocket cover turned out really well. 
After I finished cutting them the way I wanted, I ruffed them up a little and applied 4 coats of Krylon spraypaint for plastic.  I waited one day between each coat and let the parts sit for four days after the final coat was applied to let it cure.  I then applied 3 coats of clear coat spray using the same intervals.  I was really pleased with the finish and after 2 months, they are holding up great.  Turned out to be a nice $25 mod.

I would post pics, but can't seem to get them to transfer. 

Here are my paint questions.  I have a 2007 Pearl White monster that I bought used.  The previous owner had a heated vest plug that scratched up the tank.

Picture 1 (http://www.mysimplelife.com/img/motorcycles/monster/IMG_1200-web.jpg)

Picture 2 (http://www.mysimplelife.com/img/motorcycles/monster/IMG_1201-web.jpg)

Can the scratches shown in the pictures above be fixed with the Color-rite touch up pens?  Would I need to lightly sand the affected area before using the touch up pens?  Are the color-rite touch up pens a waste of money? ($16 for white, $16 for pearl, $10 for clear).

Thanks.

Fixed is the operative word here.

Lets use invisible and better instead.

Invisible....no way.

Better...depends on whether you are looking for invisible...or just better.

Pearls are tough to repair...period.

The paint cost also becomes subjective.

Ducpainter,

1) What do you think about heating up rattle cans before use?

years ago, a painter told me to put the can in a bucket of tap-hot water (so around 110 max?)  and let it sit for a minute or two before using it.  Said it made the pigment flow better, etc.

I've always done this and my gut tells me it works, but does it really?  it seems to make a difference when shaking up the can.

2)  Preval sprayers.  Good/bad/ugly?

I use them with Lauer Duracoat for firearms and have experimented with some bike parts (same materials).  But they are pretty basic in terms of throwing the material.

Is there a better solution than a Preval can that doesn't require a big setup?

3)  what is the smallest air paint setup you have?  I have two compressors, both capable of decent air, smaller one is 5cfm/90psi and big one is 8cfm/90psi.  the smaller one is a roofer's type pancake compressor, but i could easily put a line filter for a paint sprayer. 

thx

Paint does flow better when warm. If ambient temps are above 70 deg I don't bother with materials mixed for gun usage, but they can be controlled with reducers. For rattle cans I can definitely see the advantage.

I have a Preval....I'd rather use an airbrush. Prevals have no adjustability just like a rattle can. edit: Many PBE suppliers now have a system to load 2K components into a rattle can. Regardless of anything else the materials are superior to non activated rattle can products.

Compressor suitability depends on the consumption of the spraygun. If you are using HVLP equipment they can have consumption rates close to 20cfm @ 40psi. The guns I use are 9 cfm @ 40 psi @ the wall regulator. Your larger unit will handle that gun, but the guns are $400 each. What do you intend to use?

A quick test is to set your regulator to 40 psi with an open hi flow fitting. If the compressor will maintain 40 psi you should be good to go. Hi flow fittings and a minimum air line diameter of 3/8" are critical to HVLP gun performance.

i am looking at those small touchup type gravity fed guns, i.e. 0.5l res.  is that what you're using?

there is a DeVilbiss kit that I am looking at..  gun and accessoris around $150

I don't use a touch up gun...I'm looking at them. Metallics are sensitive to many factors to achieve a good match. One is fluid tip size, and the small guns use a small tip. Solids much less so.

I use the finishline gun for sealer and color. I use an Iwata LPH-400 LVG for clear.

The 23 psi number is at the gun....not the wall.

I doubt you'll get it to spray too well at 23 psi at the wall due to line loss.

That said they are not bad sprayguns. They do use between 9+ and 13+ cfm depending on config

Specs here http://www.autorefinishdevilbiss.com/products.php?pg=7

thanks for the info. 

i need something that is general purpose for small jobs.  like a rifle barrel or a side cover and 90% of what i'll spray is Lauer Duracoat.  do you think that's a good choice gun for that?

I checked the Lauer site and they don't offer much for online tech info so it's kind of tough to tell. One thing I did learn is the film is not very thick.

I think a smaller gun would be better. Pricing is not as attractive.

For small jobs a 1.3mm nozzle is max.

The Finish Line guns have a minimum nozzle size of 1.3mm.

If you reduce fluid feed the reasonably priced FLG will do what you need and has the capability to do just about any project with the available larger nozzles.

yeah, they are pretty cagey about their formulation.  i don't think it is patented, it is just their "special sauce."

It's a two-part material, pigment and hardener.  Smells remarkably like many 2-part adhesives, but it is not light/uv sensitive like epoxy paints are.  They also sell a thinner which I believe is MEK.



Since I already have the compressor, I think I am good to go, I don't mind buying something that's going to last.  I've probably painted a dozen things in the last year and it would have cost me 10x the price of a more expensive gun to do it the way I wanted.

I actually have experience with larger HVLP car painting, but that was a very simplistic setup in a converted greenhouse in the back yard -- painting frame-off VWs for resto work.  But I think I was more lucky that knowledgeable, I just asked the paint shop guys a lot of questions and went from there.  Old VWs didn't have nice things like clear coats or metallic finishes...!  [coffee]

Nate
what base and clear products do you use when spraying a "dark" finish?

I had a dark scanned and used a PPG clear. The metallic appearance isn't perfect. The flat finish screws with the camera.

The PPG flat clear is DCU 2060.

It's a really nice appearance but it has a short shelf life.

Now I use DCU 2021 and SU 4985 flattener at the eggshell ratio. I don't have it off the top of my head

I hate painting dark

not my fave either...

the biggest issue is metallic presence with the flat clear.

I spent two days tinting a silver dark because the scan was so bad.

What's going on in here? ;)


How did I miss this? :P

Just not payin' attention I guess.   ;D

Hi all, I have a smal scratch on my red frame. Is there a way to touch up that?

Im planning on doing the same thing! ... But i'm wiating to the Winter months .. Up here in Maine we need to enjoy the weather while we got it!! 

What's involved in Painting Wheels .. My gut tells me a GOOD CLEANING, then spray em.  I was going to wait till the winter months when I do my frame, but if Ducpainter tells me its a weekend project then maybe, just maybe, I'll tackle it next rainy weekend!!

Cleaning is the key to any paintwork. It's the first step.

If you shortcut the basics the job will basically   ;D   suck

Then you have to sand...and treat any bare aluminum.

Then a primer...scuff... and paint.

The work can be done in a weekend, but the paint will be too soft to mount tires for several days under optimal drying conditions.

Alright so maybe not a weekend thing .. unless its a three day rainy crappy weekend followed by rainy days .. I can't drive the car to work on a sunny day without kicking myself in the pants all the way home ... so, back to the point at hand ...  I remove the wheels, clean the crap out of them .. what do I treat the aluminum with? (I've got 58K miles on those rims so I'm sure there is some Alum. showing somewhere!) .. should I "scuff" before the primer? .. What grit do I "Scuff" with? I just want a glossy Black (from the gold) how many caots am I looking at?  I am not looking for any show bike or anything but don't want people to look and say nice "Krylon touch Buddy" .. that being said, should a rattle can do the trick?!

And my last question ... Should I capitalize on my next tire change and do it with the rubber off? or just tape and spray?

Sand with 400 dry...use a scotch-brite in the areas you can't effectively sand with paper.

Clean again to remove sanding dust. You can use a post sanding cleaner.

Go to a PBE store and buy aluminum etching material. Follow the directions on the label.

Spot prime the treated areas...you don't need to do the entire wheel.

Scuff the primed areas smooth with 400 dry.

If you want a rattle can job...go for it. I don't recommend rattle can products.

If you want to mask the tires...go for it. That's not how I do it.

one tip

a buddy of mine painted a wheel wit hthe tire on -- he deflated it and broke the bead, then taped the tire to get paint on the full lip.  painted, waited 2-3 days for it to dry then rebeaded the wheel and reinflated.

Hmmmm ..... Anyone have some black rims they wanna sell me cheap!  ??? ;D

thanks for your advice nate. i used a two stage process and, after some test panels, got the dark down pat. i still loath it though.

Any time...

I feel the same way...although loathe is a bit strong.

Hate will do.   ;D

hate it is.  ;D

To make Nate wince....

I was in Harbor Freight yesterday and picked up one of these:

20 oz. 6 CFM Gravity Feed Spray Gun
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47016

I wasn't intending to.  I needed a new impact gun and I saw a guy buying a few of them (spray gun) and they are on sale for $11.  I asked him if he'd used it before and he said this was his third one, he paints motorcycles (!) and had no problem with them.   I asked him why he's on his 3rd and he said they are so cheap to buy that he just gets them on sale and throws them away when they clog (which is avoidable since they come with a cleaning kit and filter)

he said HF has nozzles for them (1.1,1.2,1.3,1.4) for $10 each and it's cheap enough for a small job.  He said it was a matter of getting the spray distance and painting conditions just right and with a 3hp compressor or better, there would be no problems.

I've got an old gas tank I am going to experiment on, we'll see how it goes once the weather is more amenable... and i have time...  and the house is clean.... and the yard is done .... and the baby is asleep...

anyhow.  my question is thus:

I understand as a professional that you wouldn't want to use this kind/quality, but what's really the problem with them for a small-volume painter?

Nothing really...

It's not HVLP which creates more o/spray and wastes paint.

The fact that it's gravity feed is good.

With the cost of Ducati red at $100/pt from PPG it's an issue IMO.

That said, for a small job where you're not going to use a whole pint but have to buy it, should work fine.

well, on second examination, that's not the correct part i got -- the gun i got was hvlp, says so on the box and in the instructions..  i wish they wouldn't play footsie with their stupid part numbers

this is the correct part #
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=90977

coupon is for $11.99, but you gotta be on their mailing list!

I've polished aluminum before.  It was pretty easy and looked pretty good.  I've thought about doing this to my wheels and my side cases.  Once I'm done is there a clear that I can use so they won't look like butt in one riding season?  Anything that happens to some in a rattle can?

Thanks,
Scott

PS- Who am I kidding?  All that polished metal, then I'd have to start cleaning my bike on a regular basis ;)

If that gun only uses 6 cfm buy 2 or 3 more.   ;)

Looks pretty decent.

Keep it clean and it should work.

Nothing in a rattle can, but POR makes a clear that they claim will stick to chrome and polished metal. No FHE, but if it works nearly as well as their tank sealer you'll be good to go.

mm kay.. i have a coupon, i am going back.. want one?  $11.99 ain't bad.

What size nozzle does it come with?

1.4.. stainless steel.

CLEARCOAT SETUP TIMES/CARE FOR NEW PAINT

I recently had my tank done and was told that the clear would not fully harden for about a week. During that time I shouldn't wash the bike.

I was also told that I shouldn't wax the paint until after two weeks and shouldn't apply my tank pad until after three.

My question is what additional precautions should I take with my new paint job and are the ones above reasonable or should I wait longer?


TIA
Gage

I don't buy the no washing. Use mild detergent and dry the finish with a soft cloth. If the clear is that soft the tank was delivered to you too soon.

Most manufacturers say 30-60 days before wax...full cure. The same applies to any adhesive backed items or anything that would prevent outgassing or mark the clear due to the solvents in the adhesives.

The number one killer for paint..any paint is when the finish is wiped while dry. The dust and dirt on the surface will scratch the clear. Water when washing acts as a lubricant to float the dirt off the surface.

I thought the one about washing didn't sound right and will follow your advice regarding all the others.

Thanks!

90 days ;D at 70 degrees

That's pretty conservative. ;)

It also depends on how much clear you apply...

If you flow coat and end up with 5 coats of clear then 90 days is about right.

Ducpainter:

i'm interested in painting the pipes on my bike, and the first idea that came to mind was to hit autozone/napa to pick up some dupli-color's engine primer & header paint (after cleaning with rust remover & such), would this have enough heat tolerance? if i'm not mistaken, i believe it is protected up to 1300, but hell if i know. i'm really not picky as far as color matching, i embrace every one of my 'battle scar' nitches ;), so i want to make sure it's not going to flake off, crack, etc.

Thanks for the help.

If by pipes you mean cans...1300 is overkill.

If by pipes you mean the headers themselves, 1300 is not really enough, IMO.

If I were going to paint the stainless headers on my bike I'd use a ceramic coating.

yeah, that'd be the headers, not cans. there's also a 1300 ceramic as well. if that's a no go, what would you suggest i check out? i may just end up wrapping them anyway.

Check out this place.

http://hpcoatings.com/am/Default.aspx

I scuffed my clutch cover(wet) pretty bad on a dump and am wanting to wire wheel it and paint it to match the bike.  Red circle with white letters and a ring around it.  How would you go about doing that and what paint will match my red with white stripe/wheels s2r 800?  I've never tried painting something precision wise and every time I try to tape I always seem to get overspray :-[  Plz help me :)

I can teach process...

I can't teach technique over the web...

but I'll try. ;D

Go to a vinyl guy and have him make you some masks for the circles...it will make your life so much easier.

I'd have him make a large mask the size of the overall diameter and a ring with an od the same as the size of the large mask. Also have him cut the letters as if they were going to applied as a decal.

Paint the color of the ring and the letters...assuming they'll both be white....let it dry.

Then apply your ring mask and the letters and paint the red.

Let it dry and peel the masks except for the outer most mask you applied first.

If you use b/c you can clear at this point...let it dry and peel the mask.

Done.

Do you have a spray gun and compressor? That will determine the paint you use.

I don't know of a rattle can that matches Duc red.

edit....make sure the vinyl guy uses masking film...not regular vinyl.

I use an Iwata LPH80 spray gun. It's an HVLP gun with unusually low CFM requirements. It's nice and compact, but plenty big enough to do pretty much anything on a bike (Up to 5" fan pattern).

It's a bit on the pricey side, but is rated to draw only about 2-2.5CFM at around 10-15PSI. Does amazing work and does'nt need a big compressor.

My $0.02

Adam

Anyone know the paint codes for the Gold frame/wheels on a 2000 Monster?

Thanks,

Adam

I don't think Ducati knows them....

seriously if you can find a paint shop that sells PPG 'Global' they probably have the info.

my local ppg rep has a little paint chip book for all of the bike manufacturer paint codes up to 2006. The book is by this company called the nexa corp. which ppg apparently bought and now own all of the paint codes. i dont know how well they match ducati factory stuff, i still use my own scans b/c i am not a ppg guy.

Some of the colors are good.

Reds are not a 'perfect' match.

The silver they have is for the earlier bikes not the S2R

good information to have  [thumbsup]

also, i dread buffing 999/749 tanks

Why?

Cause buffing sucks. ;D

shush you...

all the grown up painters do it.

sneaks back into hole....................................... ;D

Ducpainter,

What gun and compressor would you recommend for a DIY first time painter looking to paint a tank and other misc. items. I've been told you need a compressor with atleast 3hp. Those are kinda expensive. Are there any other options?.......Oh, yeah, I'm poor too. Thanks.

Brian

The compressor depends on the requirements of the gun.

3 HP would be too small, I think, as most economically priced guns require 17 cfm.

No matter how you cut it it's cheaper to have someone else paint your stuff than it is to purchase all the equipment.

If you're determined to DIY let me know and I'll make some recs.

Ok. One last question. I recently painted a spare tank I have with spray cans. I used all automotive paints and primer from an automotive shop and the tank turned out better than expected. Lastnight I rattle canned a coat of clear and it went on really bad. So, can I sand down the areas that are bad and take it to a paint shop for them to clearcoat. How does the sanding of the clearcoat work?

It could be a laquer based clear, and if it is, A body shop will probably need to strip and start over.  It is never a good idea to spray a urethane product over laquer...they don't get along very good and there is a good chance of having a bad reaction.

There is very little lacquer available in rattle cans these days.

Almost all of it is enamel and is re-coat sensitive.

What do you mean by 'went on badly'?

Did the color coat lift, or was there just a lot of texture.

Chances are you waited too long to clear if there was lifting and the base will need to be sanded off and reapplied, or you could just wash the rattle can paint off with solvent and start over.

If there was texture/orange peel...sand it flat and reapply some color, then clear.

Just alot of texture issues. Dimpling

Use 600 wet or finer.

edit...

I looked at your thread in acc & mods...

Seeing as you used solid colors I'd sand with 1000 grit wet and clear...

you can skip the reapplication of color.

Make sure you clean the surface well after sanding. Use a water based product specifically intended for paint.

Or locate some Sprayway Glass cleaner. [thumbsup]

That will work too. ;)

The point being...

don't use a solvent based cleaner on rattle can products.

It would be ugly.

I have some previously painted parts that I want to put a nice gloss black finish on, and I'm not sure how to proceed.  I have a good airbrush set-up (and the parts aren't huge) so I want to save some money by just getting a gallon of decent paint off flea-bay or something.  Some of it is plastic, so a complete strip job is impractical, but it needs to be primed and sanded anyway.  I hope rattle can primer is good enough.

1) Does that seam reasonable, or am I wasting my time and money?

2) Are rattle-can primers compatible with single-stage urethane's? 

Out of curiosity, how big are the parts?

I don't think you'll get a single stage out of an airbrush and get good results. Air brushes spray dry because of the small nozzle and all urethanes require a wet edge.

The rattle can primer won't bother the paint, but it in itself is a compromise.

The largest is a seat cowl.  The rest is bits a pieces like clip-on mounts, etc.

Would a another paint type be a better choice?   Or, I could just pick up a detail gun at Harbor Freight or Sears.  I already have a 30gal compressor....

As for compromise ... well, I'm cheap, and I already have the cowl sitting here.  If I really wanted to do it right, I'd just get a factory finished black cowl!  [roll]  Realistically, the rest could be rattle-canned with acceptable results.

Hey ducpainter.  I have the "Ducati Dent" in my tank and I'm planning on fixing it sometime soon.  Question is, would it be safe to use a Uni-Spotter to pull the dent if I let the tank air out and fill it with water?  There doesn't seem to be any access from the inside to push it out because of the baffles inside the tank.  Thanks in advance.

Uni-spotter is a brand name for a stud welder.

I use one made by Motor-guard.

They work great.

Go slow...it's easy to pull a chunk of the tank out or crack the metal.

It takes patience and some skill.

Make sure you braze the hinge and coat the tank.

Might as well do the job right the first time.

Is it necisary to fill the tank with water? Or can I just let it air out?  Also, what product would you recommend to use for sealing the inside of the tank when finished? 

Is the hinge area of the tank a weak spot that has caused problems?

If the tank is clean inside...

meaning no heavy rust scale just let it dry. If you're the nervous type you can rinse it out

Heavy scale will trap fuel and they can go poof when you braze. I've had those go boom even after rinsing. It's kinda cool...flames shoot out the sender hole I've never had one do it from the stud welder.

The Monster tank hinge goes back to the days if the 851/pre Terblanche SS. Back then they used a couple of reinforcement welds from the hinge to the tank seam along with the spot welds. Those didn't leak.

When they introduced the monster and the Terblanche designed SS for some reason they eliminated the reinforcement welds...probably to reduce costs...and lo and behold. The spot welds failed.

Trust me on this one. Reinforce the hinge.

I use POR-15 and have never had a complaint of a failure. Follow the instructions exactly and you should have no problem.

BTW make sure you remove all the internals before starting the project.

Thanks for the help.  I do body work for a living, but I've never fixed a dent on a gas tank.

BTW, it's cool to see that you are giving so many people good advice on how to their own paint work.  I've read through this whole thread, and I think that I agree with just about everything you've told people...it's nice to see a good body man/painter who isn't a hack, cuz there seems to be more hacks than there are people who know what their doing.

Thanks again

No problem...

I enjoy doing it.

I can't emphasize how important going slow with the studs are.

The metal thickness on the monster tank and the shape makes it really easy to end up welding a bunch of holes up.  ;D

Let me know if I can be of any more help.

I'm a hack, what of it? 8)

Yeah....

right.

After getting a lot of different and confusing advice on primers from the paint store, for the last couple of painting projects I've ended up using a two-part epoxy primer.  I think it says "non-sanding" right on the cans, but I wet sand it and it sands very nicely.  I really like the two part epoxy primer, it sprays good and is a light gray which seems to work good under the colors I've used, and it sticks like iron to bare steel.  Then I use use a two-part urethane base coat right over the primer with no activated urethane sealer.   My paint jobs seem to always have a few flaws, directly traceable to not having a spray booth and not having a lot of skill, but I haven't noticed any issues at all with the materials;  the paint looks good and is very durable.

I have two questions:

1.  Is there any reason I should not sand  the "non-sanding" primer?
2.  Am I missing something by not using an activated urethane sealer over the epoxy primer before applying the base coat?

Thanks,

Bob

The only reason for not sanding is that type of primer is not really intended to fill like a primer-surfacer. Are you using DP-40?

If you apply enough to fill you have generally applied too much, and it's also possible you don't have sufficient film for it to work as a corrosion protectant if you sand too much.

Activated sealers promote adhesion to primers and also can help with coverage depending on the color of sealer/topcoat. I like them and believe it makes for a better job. I do sometimes spray over the type of epoxy primer you are referring to, slightly reduced to improve flow, but I spray wet on wet without sanding.

You might try HOK KD-2000. It is the modified epoxy I was referring to. It has the benefit of excellent adhesion, corrosion resistance, and it fills great making it a good choice as a direct to metal primer-surfacer.

For the record, the system you are using is great as long as you end up with enough primer after sanding. You could also spray an additional coat of epoxy, slightly reduced, to ensure adequate film thickness.

It's called non sanding because it's engineered to go on smooth enough to accept topcoat without "having" to sand it.

+1 on dp's recommendation of using a sealer coat and I'll add to it that it also creates a fresh chemical bond as well. Using the sealer will also allow you to use a grit or so coarser keeping bodywork straighter.

If you're into House of Kolor and in an unregulated market, the KP2CF is the bomb. Although it only comes in a crappy green color, it's an awesome primer that will never let you down.

Ducpainter and trouble, thanks for your comments.


I've been using Nason Ful-poxy primer, mainly because the store that sells it is close.  I think it may be very similar to DP-40 but don't know for sure.


I'm not quite there yet to spray wet on wet.  All my paint projects so far have required some remedial work in between coats.


Thanks, I think I will try it next time.

The automotive paint store is always trying to sell me "Self Etching" primer for use on bare steel.  I'm no chemist but it just seems to me that anything that is self etching has to be acidic and it also seems to me that acid and paint are not very compatible and there must be some compromise in the coating quality of the primer due to the acid content.  For bare metal I've been using metal prep from the local big box store and it seems to work fine as long as I get it all off before priming.

Is self etching primer worth using?

Thanks,

Bob

My simple answer....

use epoxy.

The military does, as does every manufacturer, other than automotive, for items exposed to the elements.

Self etching was designed for speed. It does not have the corrosion resistance of the system you're currently using.

Thanks.  I've had these questions for a long time and I really appreciate you and others taking the time to share your knowledge.

You're welcome

Now here is a interesting thread, thanx for all the tips and info dp [thumbsup]

Ducpainter, I've got an '03 Dark.  The original owner left that little warning sticker on the tank.  When I removed it and all the glue there was and still is a slight difference in color between the spot that was under the sticker and the rest of the tank.  Can I use polishing compound or something similar to get rid of this?  I'm hesitant to start rubbing out a matte finish, I've only worked with shiny finishes before.

Thanks,

Scott

Scott,

If you rub too much the gloss will change (shinier), but the dark spot will remain.

What you're seeing is the fading of the part of the tank that had less UV protection.

Not much you can do I'm afraid.

dp

UV lamp with a mask on the tank??

It might work...

It would be pretty expensive.

I'd bet in a few months time in the sun it would be a distant memory.

UV light?  Mask?  Way too much trouble!  But thanks for the suggestion.

A few months in the sun is probably easier but living in Portland , OR and having covered parking, that may take more than a few months.

Scott

Scott, I've never been able to understand the attraction of a matte black tank or motorcycle, especially a matte black Ducati.  I have a left over quart of proper RED paint that will permanently solve your  problem  ;D

I have no problem. 

Matte black, or 'suede' as the hot rodders call it, is a fabulous color.  It doesn't need cleaning.  It doesn't need polishing.  Ok, maybe it does but since dirt never affects the shine there's no compulsion to clean and polish.  It is the same color as that hideous brake dust so you never notice it piling up on your wheels.  You never notice that that new chain lube has flung off all over the back of your bike.  It looks great with a little bit of rust on the edges.

If I paint my tank red I will no doubt feel compelled to wash and wax the damn thing and worry about all manner of silly people scratching my bike.  That's a problem!  As it is, I wash it once a year before I put it up for the winter.  I don't worry about scratches and if I did I could easily fix them with a Sharpie marker.

I'm not really a fan of black bikes, too invisible.  Yet two of my three bikes have been black.  So sexy and seductive...

The only way I would paint the tank red is if I could also paint the wheels white and then slap 'Radio Flyer' stickers on the tank.  'Radio Flyer' was everybody's first hotrod.

http://www.thedailygreen.com/cm/thedailygreen/images/pL/Radio-Flyer-Classic-Red-Wagon-lg.jpg (http://www.thedailygreen.com/cm/thedailygreen/images/pL/Radio-Flyer-Classic-Red-Wagon-lg.jpg)

Scott

I have white paint...

and I'll get the decals made if you'll do it.   ;D

You can get the decals on e-bay.  I checked :D

I'm thinking about it but for what it costs to paint my tank, fender, and wheels, I can buy lots of suspension bits and maybe an old 70s project bike to boot.  Those are both higher on my priority list.  And if the wheels were white, I'd have to clean them.

Scott

Trust me, you don't  ;)

what is the last thing you painted Nate?

A seat cowl.

i sprayed the left side of a yellow 999 on fri.

 ??? :-\

Mister Nate, 
Couple of questions for ya.

Would the prep for just finished fiberglass pieces be the same as anything else?

Is there a small hobbyist gun/compressor or airbrush that isnt too expensive, that gets decent results?

Do you place decals/ pin striping below or above the clear? 

Should one wait 30-60 days to mount the newly finished pieces on the bike?

Am I crazy?

 ;D

The prep for the glass kinda depends on how it was constructed. If mold releases were used you need to be sure to use the right solvent to remove them. If they were hand laid with no mold release then it is not so crucial and 'standard' (depends on how you do it normally) methods are fine.

I'm actually the wrong person to ask about hobby sized equipment. I'm sure there is, but I'm not aware of it. My experience with spray equipment has been as a 'pro'.

I like the graphics under the clear...except on race/track bikes. Those things are going to crash and repair is easier if you don't have to sand off all the clear to remove graphics. Also they aren't viewed with the same scrutiny as our street bikes.

No...mount them when they're dry enough to handle. Keep in mind that the bolt locations will be soft enough to allow imprinting, and possibly "oozing" of the finish. If that's an issue then waiting will eliminate most of it.

Yes.   :P

This may be a stupid question, but could one use a airbrush, to paint, say a tank?

maybe one could...

but not this one. ;)

It would take a while to even paint a tank with an airbrush.  A mini gun would probably work good for a beginner painting bike parts.  I got a Devillbiss Starting Line gun kit with a full size HVLP gun and a mini HVLP gun for primer guns.  You can buy the mini gun for around $75 and it sprays decent and isn't much more $$$ than an airbrush.


BTW... Nate, have you ever used UV primer?  That's what I use in my mini gun.  Pretty cool stuff... spray it, put it out in the sun, and it's sandable in 5-10 minutes.

You need to try a Sata mini jet. ;)

I haven't used it. Dry time is less of a concern to me than film build, adhesion, and corrosion resistance. I like epoxies/modified epoxies. Plus, the sun hasn't been out here in days and the temps are in the teens. ;D

I've used the Mini-Jet and it is a very nice gun, but I can't justify over $300 for a mini gun for as little as I'd use it.  I do more body work and priming than I do painting.

The UV primer is made by R-M (VP126).  It is some really cool stuff.  1.5-2 coats out of a mini gun with a 1.0 tip and needle has the same build as 3 coats out of a full size gun with a 1.6-1.8 tip.  It has corrosion resistance very close to epoxy, the adhesion is almost too good (similar to epoxies) and it is a 1K product, so there is no waste.  There is only about 6% solvent, so there is also no shrinking.  It's also available in a spray can for smaller jobs.

I have been looking for advice for my painting project and I'm glad to find a professional willing to assist rookies.
I laid my bike down and need to repaint the tank and front fairing which are both plastic (2007 S4RS).
How would I go about prepping these items for painting which have no structural damage but some scratches.
The plan is to give the bike a matte black paint job and a matte clear coat. I'm planing on using a Devilbiss touch- up HVLP gun to shot the paint. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I can only tell you how I do it.

Gather all your materials...be prepared to use plenty of vaseline when you pay the bill.

Clean everything before you start. Wash with soap and water and dry, then use a wax and grease remover.

Assuming you are going to remove the decals and stripes, sand off the clear with 150/180 and remove the stripes and logos. Don't sand the adhesive into the finish. after the decals are off use goo gone or an adhesive remover to get the leftover adhesive. If you use goo gone make sure to wash the tank again as it's oil based.

When you get everything reasonably flat use an adhesion promoter on any bare plastic following label directions then prime with a primer surfacer. This might be a problem with some surfacers using the small gun.

When your primer is cured/dry scuff the areas that have gouges and fill the gouges with a polyester glazing putty and sand smooth. Spot prime those areas and let cure/dry.

You're now ready for final sanding. I use 400 dry, wash, tack, and then seal with an appropriate color sealer. Then color and clear.

Nothing to it. ;)

My wife`s toe nails [thumbsup]

Sweeeet and thanks for sharing your expertise.
I located all the recommended ingredients less the color sealer and finish.
Anything you can suggest for the color sealer, the matte black finish and
matte clear would be greatly appreciated.
 
 

What brand paint is available?

Through work I can get Sherwin Williams or Dimension which would help keeping the expense down.

                           Thanks agian

I used to use S-W primer and clear and I used a little bit of the Dimension color.

I don't use them any longer for a reason. The clear stayed soft too long for moto tanks and the primer shrunk.

I can make specific product recommendations for PPG and HOK.

Cool,
Let me have it :)

I would use HOK KS 10 for a sealer and PPG DCU 2060 flat clear. The only downside of using different brands is you need to buy two different activators. PPG does have a urethane sealer, but I don't use it. If you want I can get the product # for the ppg sealer. HOK doesn't sell a flat clear per se. They offer a flattening agent for their clear. If you use one manufacturer you would save some money as activators are expensive. I use HOK reducers.

You can use any dark black metallic or straight black for color...the metallic kind of disappears under the flat clear.

Hopefully this will be the last time I'll bug you...
How much shoud I expect to pay for a professional to paint my tank.

             Thanks again

11ty billion dollars.  ;D

Very funny  (http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/zaster99/smiley-rofl1.gif)
I can get everything from work except the color sealer, paint (well reducer and accelerator) and clear
for $80. Just wanted to see what I would be saving by doing it by myself.

;D

It's really hard to say.

If he has materials in house it might be reasonable...

you'd have to ask around in your area.

Keep in mind that you get what you pay for if you're lucky.

The advantage the pro would have is a dust controlled environment, which is essential on a matte finish.

RU300?


 [laugh]


Ever thought about leaving the KS? ;)

ducpainter im having my tank painted but i have to do the prep work.  Aftermarket paint job on there still and one place where they pulled a dent out and its bondoed there. Is there a thread out here, or can you give me basic instructions on how to prep the tank for this? Tools i have are an electric sander. Old bondo has to come off, its thick in some spots.  What grit will get bondo off? Do i just sand the hell out of the whole tank till all the bondo is off, then primer it a few times with wetsanding in between primer coats?

What's your plan for replacing the filler?

It's there for a reason....like primer won't fill the damage.

How come your painter isn't doing the whole job?

I found out that one of our stores carries HOK and the salesman knows  a painter that specializes in motorcycles.
Any recommendations for what matte blacks/clears to use for a plastic tank/seat cowl?
If I wanted to do a mad max scheme, how would I go about getting brackets, radiator, oil cooler etc. black.
I hear that anodizing things black eventually makes them start turning purple.

Sand all the parts you want flat black with 80-120 grit. Apply an epoxy primer, allow it to cure a few days. Sand it with P400 (preferably with water) and apply the HOK KS12 after a few minutes apply a second coat of the KS12. Allow 24 hours to cure and re-install parts you're done.

As for the bodywork use the same process. If it's already painted skip the epoxy primer part.

Hi,  I have a couple of used carbon fiber parts that have yellowed and clouded from UV, or whatever.  They have minimal epoxy layup.  What is the best technique/process and materials to 1) remove as much of the the degraded material (if its even possible), 2) prep, and 3) paint/clear coat.  I have a gun and compressor/dryer big enough to do fenders, etc.  Thx

Wash it, sand it with 220, prime the living shit out of it, and sand with 400 after all the holes are filled. Seal and paint.

You can use polyester putty to fill the stubborn pinholes and re-prime.

OK, here's a new question: I have a '99 750 Monster in Yellow. I have adapted the small fairing from an S2R to it, the fairing is also yellow, but they aren't the same yellow, by any stretch. the bike is bright, deep yellow, and the fairing is more of a creamy yellow. But color-rite only lists one yellow for all the Monsters and Superports from '99 through '08. Are they wrong? or has the paint color drifted over time that much?

I want to have the bike repainted in a tri-colore scheme, but that is budget-limited, i was thinking a rattle-can of
color-rite yellow would make the fairing less of an eyesore. based on my quick research, i have no idea whether or not that will do what i want.

any suggestions?

My experience is that there is no one yellow or one red. The darks are all different also.

Ducati does not paint their own stuff. It is painted by whatever company builds the part, or their sub-contractor.

That opens the color to variances due to brand of paint, process (do they paint over white or gray...was it a good mix), and technique...did Guido put all three coats on or was he a little buzzed after lunch.

I don't think the color-rite stuff will necessarily match either part.

Save your money and get the bike painted when you can afford it.

DP is right about the paint colors, I have done numerous demo bike repair jobs on ducati`s and the colors are definitly not always the same, also the plastics and metal parts tend to discolor differantly with age and the amount of uv exposure.

I always try to repaint the complete bike than to just repaint panels, but that is totally customer dependant.
The other problem is that us so called professional painters do a better job of painting than the factory mass produced stuff so a single panel repair job could turn out nicer than the old stuff still on the bike.

So the answer is to save your money and paint the bike the way you want it [thumbsup]

thanks, guys! i'll just keep riding it, grinning all the way, and feeding the piggy bank!

Sorry I wasn't clear.  I am hoping to refinish carbon fiber parts with a clear coat so the carbon fiber looks good again.  Should I just clear coat the sheit out of it?  Possible? How best to do it?

I did misunderstand.

Wash it, sand with 400/600...

and clear.

The quality of the carbon, meaning if it was built for strength or appearance, will dictate the next step.

If you see a bunch of holes, wet sand with P800 and fill each hole with a brush with activated but unreduced clear.

Let it cure and wet sand again with P800...

continue until you don't see any holes.

We're having some fun now. ;D

Keep in mind if the carbon has discolored this won't fix it.

I was imagining a non-clear primer.  I think I'm clear now (pun intended)
Molto obrigado!!
Muchas Gracias
Merci Bou coup

Where do you  put the filler?  I know some people that put it straight on, and some that swear that you need to put it on top of the first primer layer?

Also can you recommend a good filler?  I have used a bunch of cheepies, and one crazy expensive one from Tap plastics. (I don't know what I was thinking  [roll])  I always tend to get stuck on the outside of sands away too quickly or is too hard to work with.

Thank you for helping all the little guys.   [thumbsup]

I put the filler on on top of the epoxy after scuffing it if the part has been taken to bare metal. If you are working over an OEM finish I sand the area with 36 grit paper/disc and fill on the bare metal.

I use evercoat Rage Gold for filler and evercoat easy sand polyester putties. The purple label evercoat products are the best sanding IMO and offer good adhesion and they claim has zinc to combat corrosion.


huh?

I'm gonna blame the last sentence on painkillers.  ???   I almost picked up a tube of that evercoat easy sand last time I was at the paint store.  If they have it, I'll give the Rage gold a shot too.  Thanks so much.

If you are working on plastic the process is a bit different.

Let me know.

The evercoat products work well for me. Remember...purple label.

What do you do for plastic?  I will be doing a bit of everything on the next bike.  Metal, plastic, and fiber glass.  I wasn't planning on doing anything different, with the exception of adding some flex agents to the plastic fender pieces. 

Unless the fender is extremely flexible, like a car bumper cover, skip the flex agent.

Duc fenders are actually pretty rigid as are all of the plastics on most bikes.

You must use an adhesion promoter before priming and do your filling over the primer. Another option is to use SEM plastic repair products as fillers. You still need to use an adhesion promoter before you prime on all bare plastic. When spraying adhesion promoters be sure not to spray too heavy. It will cause you all kinds of issues.

Fiberglass is easier. No adhesion promoters, and can be treated like metal as far as the fillers are concerned.

What do you use for an adhesion promoter?

I use HOK AP-01 for most plastics. Fiberglass and c/f are not plastics.

It is only available in quarts. It will take a long time to use that much. If you want a smaller quantity I've used S-W products that are available in a spray can that worked well.

I don't like spray cans...there is very little control of the spray and it is easy to get it too heavy. If you spray adhesion promoter heavy enough to sag it will swell the plastic and make life miserable. It also will not work as intended.

That's good to know. My friend wants me to paint his Honda.  I'll let him know the price of materials just went up.   [thumbsup]

Can you enlighten me about compressor ratings?
The detail HVLP gun I'm looking at requires 8 CFM @ 30 PSI
My compressor is rated at 6.4 CFM @ 90 PSI and I can't find a conversion or
formula that gives me the CFM rating for my cmpressor at 30 PSI.
What say the expert? (20 gal tank and 4.5 hp rating).

It will work. There is no conversion because it is dependent on too many factors

If you are spraying multiple items the pump will run pretty much continuously but it should keep up.

A quick test is to run an open fitting at the pressure required for several minutes. If there is no pressure drop at the regulator you should be good to go.

Don't forget to get a high flow coupler and fitting for the gun.

how long does it take for you to say put some bondo on a tank, primer it and paint it?

just curious. i have my tank in to be painted and was just wondering how long it takes, i mean how many days does it take.

I really can't say how long it takes someone else.

I tell my customers 3 weeks...that allows for curing time so I can package and ship.

Ducpainter,
Thanks for the advice and the heads up, bought the coupler, fitting and gun at work today.

You work at a PBE shop?

I work at the local CARQUEST auto parts warehouse and they carry everything I need at employee prices.
They own PBE shops where I can get the paints mixed as well.

Sweet.

What did you buy for a gun?

$62 plus tax

Cheap enough...

The high flow fittings help.

Let me know if you have a store close to where you live and I get in contact with the owner/manager to
make sure they give you a good price. We have 3,400 stores nationwide.

Thanks.

I"m fixing to remove the radiator from my S4RS to adjust the mounting taps
I bent during a mishap a while back. Since I want to paint the bike matte black
I thought that the radiator should be the same color. Do you think that the SEM
Solve Cleaner (38373) and the Black Metal Edging Primer (39673) would do the job.

I don't really use a lot of SEM stuff.

I prefer epoxy primers on anodized metal.

Excuse my ignorance..is an aluminum looking radiator anodized?

I'm betting it is.

If it isn't it should be etched with an aluminum prep.

Either way I like epoxy on aluminum.

I'll check what we have...what would you use for cleaning since sanding is not an option
for the radiator fins?

If you don't have an epoxy an etching primer would work. Assuming the radiator is anodized corrosion shouldn't be an issue, but regular primers won't stick. Epoxy or etching will.

I'd use any mild degreaser and rinse really well. Residue will cause trouble.

There is a wash product I used to use called 'Hurrisafe'.

It was available at S-W industrial stores. It leaves no residue and I had good luck with it both using it with a pressure washer and by spray bottle and a hose.

What are the procedures for painting/powdercoating the standard coil spring on the reart suspension? Can I powdercoat it? or willl the powedercoat crack with the normal movement of the coil?? Hmmmm - Thanks

I guess lots of people do have them powdered.

It would probably need to be blasted. check with the coater and see what he wants.

Awesome! Talking with him sunday i'll ask

Just repaired a small dent on my C/F termis with epoxy and was wondering what type of clear coat you would recommend to complete the project.

The best you can do is a urethane clear. C/F cans don't, or shouldn't, get hot enough to damage automotive clear.

I know people that have used rattle can clears on cans with acceptable results, but I wouldn't do it.

How long should you wait before putting the decal back on after having it painted? How long til you can put the tank protector back on?

I'd wait a week minimum for both.

Is the aluminum prep some sort of phosphoric acid?  I have a few various types of metal prep that  are all some sort of phosphoric acid and I am hoping I can just use one of those.

I'd say longer since it's cooler here right now.

Scott

All my recommendations are based on 70 degrees F.

thanks for all your help ducpainter, i know my questions have been a pain in the ass. Its really great that you take the time to answer these questions from neurotic freaks such as myself.  [laugh]

It helps that I'm a neurotic freak myself.... ;D

Im a cheapo - with two kids and a wife who doesn’t quite understand my hobby -

So when I decided to paint my bike I knew I had to do it myself.   I  quickley decided against rattle cans after reading through this site but couldnt afford the Hundreds of dollars of HOK reccomendations So I found a middle ground and went with Dupli-Color Paintshop pre-mixed lacquer - 60 bucks and i've got primer paint and clear .. How could i go wrong! (even if i have to paint it every year to look nice i'm still saving!)

-  After 2 months of prepping on the weekends and few nights of the week I've got the paint booth up and sprayed on the primer last night .. Now i'm thinking the borrowed gun may not have the right size nozzle (I think it is a 1.4mm?) - it seemed to go on blotchy and course ..

Q1) Should I thin the paint down with some acetone?
Q2) What size nozzle? and is it the same for primer/paint/clear?
Q3) Does the spraying technique change with each?

Thanks for the help

Cheap man in Love with expensive bikes!

Are you sure it's lacquer? It really isn't readily available anymore. You can buy it, but I don't think Dupli-Color offers it any more.

Most paints/primers are designed to be reduced/thinned.

If it's lacquer use lacquer thinner not acetone...that evaporates too quickly and won't allow any flow.

If it's enamel use enamel reducer.

A 1.4 nozzle will be good for color and clear and a little small for primer. Slow your hand down with the primer,and maybe add some thinner/reducer. If your primer is coarse, as you described it, it makes for more sanding to get a smooth surface.

Technique depends on a lot of variables.

Let me know the model gun you have, what compressor, hose size, and product numbers of the paint and I'll see if you can even do what you are attempting with what you have.

yeah it is laquer check it out: http://www.duplicolor.com/products/paintshop.html (http://www.duplicolor.com/products/paintshop.html) pretty neat stuff

I wasnt setting my fan wide enough - I played on some old paint cans and figured it out tonight, got everything all primed and ready for color tomorrow night .. You were exactly right i'll need to sand a little more tomorrow to get er smooth but im happy with the outcome so far!!

This Paintshop stuff seems like it would be great for track bikes - check out the video on it http://www.fquick.com/videos/Do_it_yourself_paint_job_/5303# (http://www.fquick.com/videos/Do_it_yourself_paint_job_/5303#)

I don't know where you are located or what temp thinner Duplicolor mixes in the can, but if your color/clear doesn't go on fairly smooth you'll never polish it up. Don't be afraid to add some thinner, to improve flow, if it's warm there.

Lacquer is fine. It's more solvent resistant when fully dry than uncatalyzed enamel, and with waxing can look good for a long time.

Edit: One word of caution. Too many coats can cause cracking in the long term.

I'm up in Maine - I've kept the booth at around 60 - and another room to dry a little warmer.

I'll call up duplicolor to see what temp thinner they put in and what they suggest for thinning ratio to accomodate the temp.

Tonight is the paint and possibly Clear .. I'll post some pictures when I'm done (If i dont need to sand it all off and try again that is!!)

 I've been using a cheap gravity feed HVLP gun with my shop compressor and getting good results with my amateur paint jobs.  So far my limited skill is the limiting factor, not the cheap gun.  I got a different kind of HVLP set up from a friend, it's a small square metal box, about one foot on each side,  with some sort of turbine inside almost like a mini vacuum cleaner and a large 1" or so hose that leads to a fairly conventional looking suction type gun.  I haven't tried it yet but when I flip the switch on the turbine box the air coming out is real warm.  Seems like it might tend to dry the paint in the air before it reaches the bike.  I was happy to see that this HVLP set up is made in Canada and not China.  Assuming equal quality, just wondering what the differences are between these two types of HVLP paint sprayers?  Does the metal box thing have any real advantage or disadvantage?

Thanks,

Bob

The HVLP turbine things don't work very well from what I've heard. They never took off in the automotive painting trade, and I've never used one.

Suction feed HVLP is definitely not the way to go.

...and don't sell yourself short. There are huge differences in spray equipment and it does make a difference.

They actually work very well.

Especially in less than ideal conditions.

Problem is getting a good enough spraygun. To date the only one i've used that was worth a shit is made by Accuspray. Who was recently purchased by 3M. The gun is very good and very expensive. About $400.

$400 isn't a lot for a gun.  ;D

Is it?

If you can use the turbine and avoid the expense of a big compressor......sweeeeeet.

Thanks everyone for your comments on the HVLP turbine.  I already have big compressors and just got the turbine system because a friend is moving and getting rid of stuff.  I noticed the suction cup gun has a plugged port on top that looks like all I have to do is thread in a gravity feed cup.  The gun looks like it's well made, but...there's no brand name anywhere on the gun which usually tells me something.  I'll give this system a trial next time I paint something, which will be soon.  I saw on Google where furniture finishers seem to use these.

Lo-buck helmet painting...

Saw another poster queried this before, I'm asking the pro's in here.

Busted my arse on my dirtbike a few weeks ago....of course I was wearing my nice shark helmet that now has some scuff marks on side.

What do I need to use to paint this thing?  I'm no artist,  and I can't afford to have a custom painted helmet done at the prices I was quoted (800+), so I need a fix that don't look like shitz.

I've got an ample compressor, but no gun.  Not sure it's worth it to go buy a gun and the water separators needed to run it, but maybe?  Spray bomb it?    Really had my heart set on some of that hot rod flatz paint, then maybe some decals/simple graphics, then a flat clear on top?

Help!  Or PM me if you can do this for me (for cheap.. ?:D)

+1 except I was just thinking of a rattle can job and I need some advice on what grit sand paper, how I should sand it, how should I mask it off/what would I need, and what paint to use( I was thinking krylon? I just want it to be flat black)  I'm also not sure if I would need primer or not.....thanks

this is for my daily helmet and will go through all weather (besides snow :P) so it needs to be able to hold up against the elements

Does the helmet have any graphics on it now?

Many automotive paint stores sell real paint in an aerosol can. If you can find someone with that system you can spray activated products without buying a gun. I haven't used them, but for a small item like a helmet I'd bet you could get good results.

...cheap?

I would buy a new helmet ,if it is used throw it away and buy another one
And about painting a helmet ,don't if you are not sure that it can be done (some helmets can be painted some don't)

I don't disagree about the new helmet...

show me where a manufacturer that states a helmet can't be painted...and I won't disagree about that.  ;)

Hmm...toss a 450$ hemet because it's got a small scuff on it?  No thanks, I'll paint it.

thanks ;D

Are you going to answer my question so I can answer yours? ;D

uh....what question?


Edit.....
Oh...lol......it does.  It looks like this http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/ProductImages/300/2008_HJC_CL-15_Session_Helmet.jpg (http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/ProductImages/300/2008_HJC_CL-15_Session_Helmet.jpg)  It sorta looks like it is a big sticker almost but it is too smooth for me to peel so I think it is clear coated over the sticker.

It is clear coated over it.

The one thing you probably don't want to do is sand through the clear into the decals...unless you're planning on removing them completely...didn't think so. ;D

For a flat black job I'd sand it dull with 400 dry.

Mask or remove what needs to be...don't remove the black gasket from the bottom edge.

and paint it. You don't need primer.

If you can get an activated flat  paint premixed in an aerosol dispenser, do that. It will make the paint resistant to all the chemicals on your hands when you are around a bike.

If not, pick the flat black rattle can of choice.

Have fun.

I always seem to get ovrspray somehow when I mask things [bang]....it is usually right at the edge of where I am painting and it pisses me off.....do you have any tips on what take to use and how to keep the paint where it needs to be? thanks  ;D

That happens sometimes, and yes it is a major piss off.

What are you using to mask?

News papers, or purpose made masking materials?

I usually use a border of 3M fine line tape and then use masking plastic or paper beyond that.

You really need to make sure the tape is pushed down. Compressed air/ overspray and liquid paint will find a way through if you give it even half a chance.

Another mistake is to not have sufficient overlap between the border tape and the tape for the masking material and you get these very narrow lines of paint.

I hate it when that happens. [bang] [bang] [bang]

Since I lack airbrush skills, and lack the desire to pay someone for thiers, what is the best way to clear over a sticker?

Can I have a stick made up in a special material/thickness that will work better?

The best decals to paint over are thinner than what is usually available.

OEM style decals are printed on clear vinyl which is intended to be cleared, and is much thinner.

As far as the technique for clearing over...

go easy on the first coat. ;)

Any sticker can be cleared over, the trick is to just make sure the surfuce that the sticker is going on is clean, it is the same principle as for painting and make sure the sticker is down properly.

Take it very slow and light with the first coat especialy with metallic vinyl stickers, after that give it 3 normal clearcoats.

The next step is up to you, but I wet sand with a 1000 grit and give 3 more coats of clear before polishing.

Works good enough for Ducati on their repair jobs [thumbsup]

Ducpainter, I've got a red Superbike fender I'm going to put on my Dark Monster.  I plan to do a bargain rattle can paint job on it: PlastiKote 7179 and a Krylon matte clear over that.  I'll sand and prep, use a rattle can adhesion promoter.  Any suggestions on rattle can brands of adhesion promoter?  Do I still need primer after the adhesion promoter?  Any inexpensive brands of matte clear better than Krylon readily available?

Thanks,
Scott

If you don't sand through to the plastic an adhesion promoter isn't necessary. If you use 4-600 you shouldn't need to prime. The Krylon will stick to the mechanically abraded surface.

If you do sand through to plastic and have used the grit I suggested the adhesion promoter should be sufficient. It has some filling properties. A word of caution...put the adhesion promoter on in a light coat. If it sags it will swell the plastic and it'll be a chore to fix it.

Sherwin-Williams makes a good rattle can promoter as does Fiberglass-Evercoat. I used to use the Evercoat product when it was available in bulk, and I've used the S-W product.

I'd guess the Krylon would be as good as any non catalyzed clear. I don't use rattle cans so I don't have much experience with them.

Thanks.  I  didn't plan to sand through the original paint, just 600 or 800 wet sanding on the whole thing.  It's in fairly good shape.  Should I still use a primer or just go straight to the color coat?

Scott

Scott, just wondering about the clear Krylon.  Do  you think it will yellow pretty fast if it's in the sun a lot?  Do you need a clear coat?  What about just using matte black paint?  At least for sure it won't yellow.  Just conjecture and I don't really know.

DP, I understand your reasoning as a pro for not using rattle cans, for us amateurs we'd usually have to buy a minimum one quart plus catalyst/hardener of "real" paint for a small job like one fender and the $$ can add up real fast.  Then we end up with a whole shelf full of partly used paint cans that we'll never use.  I have pictures.

Bob, I was originally planning to get the ColorRite Dark paint.  Then I heard that it wasn't all that great (chips, flaking) and isn't guranteed to be a spot on match for coor or finish.  At $30-40 plus shipping for one spray can I want more than that.  Duplicolor GM 7179 is a very close match but gloss, no matte option.  The Dark black is actually matt black with silver and gold flecks, standard matte black does not match and some are more flat than matte making it worse.  Even DP has trouble matching color and finish on Dark Ducs, I remember he posted about a Dark silver bike that was a pain.  The Duplicolor might be close enough but I figure a matt over it would be closer, we'll see once I get it painted if I need the matte clear.

Clear yellowing over black paint?  How could I tell?  Why would I care? ;) 

I just want the extra protection for the fork legs that a SB front fender offers, and I also dig the look.  I got the fender cheap.  It isn't right next to any other painted part and isn't likely to get any fuel or oil on it so like you said, rattle cans are a very inexpensive option.  From all the reading I've done the GM 7179 wiht some matte clear is closest at the lowest price point. 

I'll keep y'all posted.  If it looks really bad then I'll paint it white or silver and teach myself to pinstripe, make it an accent piece.

Thanks,
Scott



Scott

I'd go straight to color.

You won't have any trouble covering with that color, and the primer you can buy in rattle cans isn't going to offer any advantage.

I'd stick with 600. The 800 is a bit too fine for adhesion of an enamel.


I understand. I have a whole cabinet full of paint that matched one bike. Plus if you saw the price of a pint of PPG red paint today you'd have a coronary.

Wow!  This job gets easier with every question!  DP, if I concentrate really hard will the fender just turn black without me even painting it?

Scott

No. ;D

Spoil-sport :(

I hope other people realize this and will stop complaining about the price quoted when they take it to a professional.

+1 on that piece of information [thumbsup]

The short story: DupliColor Truck, Van, & SUV universal black T090 plus Krylon flat clear (not satin) is about a 95% match for stock Ducati Dark black paint.

I couldn't find GM 7179 in stock anywhere.  Being lazy and impatient I bought some DupliColor Truck, Van and SUV 'Universal Black', T090.  This was listed on TOB as another close match.  It was way too shiny which also made it way too sparkly so I tired some Krylon satin clear.  That was still too shiny.  The Krylon flat clear was perfect.

Once the clear went on and dried the match was really pretty close.  The black is a little darker, it's a little more sparkly, and just a little more gold at certain angles.  I was going to try to take some pictures but honestly it's so close I don't think you'd be able to see it.  Overall I was really impressed and pleasantly surprised once I bolted it on and wheeled it into the sun.  If the finish holds up I don't think anyone would ever notice, maybe not even if I pointed it out.

DP,  thanks for the tips.  I feel almost foolish for not doing this sooner.  I had nightmares of adhesion promoter and bad color matches.  600 grit sand and lots of thin coats made it an afternoon project.

Scott

Howdy.

Been stalking this and "that other" forum for a few weeks now, mainly looking for a bike.

I purchased a '98 M900 last week, and freaking love it!

(http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/4274/picture001s.th.jpg) (http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture001s.jpg)

Anyway, to the paint topic.

The only downside is some acid damage to the frame and engine cover on the one side of the bike:

(http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/4658/picture006g.jpg) (http://img254.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture006g.jpg)

Looking for some possible options. (Sorry about the IZ_ picture)

I've never had any luck matching the Ducati engine paint or that frame color. Color-rite used to offer a formula for the gold frames, but it isn't listed anymore .

I'd paint the side covers low gloss black and paint/powder the frame when things needed to come apart.

I wasn't sure if you had any tips for doing some quick touch up on it.

I may just leave it as is until I really want to repaint the engine. When I am ready to do that; I would like to do a black-out on it. As matte finish as I can get without too much trouble.

I do have access to a spraying setup of my grandfather's (he restores old farm tractors), but I have no idea what he uses.

Not horribly worried about the frame for the moment. But I would eventually like to make that black sometime also.

if'n ya got any left make me a sample and the lab can match it. [thumbsup]

Nate,

I've got plans to do a little carbon fiber skinning of a few parts, and I need some advice on clear coat.  Assuming I can get a nice smooth finish in the epoxy, what type of clear coat should I use for a glossy finish? I'm at the mercy of whatever comes in a spray can.  Enamel? Lacquer?  Poly?

If you're talking about a gas tank, I'd actually choose lacquer. Gas won't soften it quite as badly as enamel. It will stain it. You will have to buff it to get the shine, and you'll have to keep it waxed.

Poly? If you mean polyurethane the stuff I use that's called polyurethane is great. I have no experience with polyurethane in a rattle can.

If there is no gas tank involved it doesn't really matter.

RM makes a urethane 2k clearcoat in their Aero Max line.  I think it's a little under $40 a can, but it's a high quality, hardened clear.

I'm not doing a gas tank, just some little things like heel guards, heat shields, etc.  I could just get some carbon parts, but I want to cover the metal pieces I have to keep the strength and rigidity.  I know I won't be getting any weight savings, but I'm not really concerned about that.  I just want a unique look. 

yeah, polyurethane is what I was referring to.  I've used it on wood projects, but never on the bike.  I think I'll go with the lacquer, build up a few thin coats and buff it out.  Thanks, Nate.

Dan

Sorta paint related...

I was working on the bike this weekend.  I've never seen any sign of gas at the hinge but when I pulled the hinge pin to remove the tank it smelled like gas and was just a bit damp.  I'm guessing I have the beginnings of a hinge leak.  DucPainter, is it possible to get this brazed without destroying the paint on the tank?  I don't mind touching up the area even by the nose of the seat but I don't want to redo the whole tank. 

Thanks,
Scott

I can repair a hinge leak with no visible paint damage with the seat in place.

I don't know if you, or your welder can...and that is not said to demean your abilities.

Not at all ;)  Just making sure it's possible at all.

Thanks,
Scott

Just finished reading through this thread and WOW!!!!.........a ton of really great information.

I'm thinking about trying to do a quick wheel paint job (rim) with a rattle can, I know it was touched on a number of pages back, but would you (ducpainter or anyone else with experience) mind giving me a very brief, point form outline of the process.

I may bite the bullet and get it professionally done, but I've already spent more on the rebuild then I was hoping to and if I can save a few bucks on the wheel, it would help.

thanks in advance
















 

If there is no bare aluminum...

rattle can away after sanding with 400 dry.

If there is bare aluminum it gets more involved.

What's the circumstance?

It's a silver wheel, which I'm assuming is painted, but I usually get myself in trouble when I assume stuff :-[

Stock silver 3 spoke?

yes sir......with the 17mm axle bolt

It is painted. The paint is very thin with a green primer underneath, which is also pretty thin.

Sand with 400 like I said. If you see green stop sanding.

You can use a red scotchbrite in the hard to reach spots.

Thanks DP..............much appreciated

make sure you use a wax and grease remover before sanding.

Use it in conjunction with Ajax (the industrial version that still has grit), performs two functions in one, provides abrasive action and cleans and de-greases. [thumbsup]

I just bought a tank that is dent free, but the previous owner spray painted over it, and did an absolutely horrible job. I want to respray it with spray-paint, but I want to remove the previous spray paint work, BUT keep the factory paint as a base.  How can I remove the spray paint that the P.O. sprayed?  Thanks!

Gasoline....

won't hurt the factory stuff...

and should wash the rattle can off no problem.

or a scuff pad and acetone

There's lots of solvents that will work.

You and I have no problem using, or buying, any of them.

Gas will work and you can even buy it in Cali. :P

Since I'm in Panama, XXXXXmls away, how can I repaint my PLASTIC tank, we don't get PPG paints anymore here...also would like to paint the part of the forks that hold the calipers, how do I prep/paint?

Are you just changing color, or repairing damage?

Tell me what you're up to and I'll try to help.

Tell me what kind of materials are available.

I'm only repairing, we've got BASF, DuPont, NexxaAutocolor, Sikkens, AkzoNobel, Nason,...I mean,I want my bike to stay "DARK" and even darker...

I'd like to paint the valve covers black/red and, pls excuse my ignorance, the part at the end of the forks, where the axle goes thru, also black, eventually the swingarm...That's how I want my bike to be.

CF is very nice, but, I do like the look of the black belt covers, give's it  a not for show look...I do want some CF[front fender, rear 'beer tray, regular size], maybe rear hugger, for shure, the side covers all in CF.

And by the way, how do I keep it from getting 'lighter in color'?  ???

What do you mean keep it from getting lighter?

I think the member trouble can give you some recommendations on Akzo Nobel products.

They're not as black as when I bought them...

That is a downside of a flat/low gloss finish.

It's unavoidable.

My 2003 620ie has some damage on the engine where the battery leaked. How do I prep and paint the engine? What kind of paint and color should I use??
Thanks

Ducati uses regular engine enamel with no primer so just choose anything that is close.

I'd 'feather the edges' with some 320 grit paper and maybe a scotchbrite and use an etching solution for aluminum following label directions.

Then you should be able to blend your color.

Hi Ducpainter

I have a paint rub on my tank (M696) and I was wondering how I can fix it

It seems that the clear has rubbed off

Any suggestions???

(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff68/007wabbit/DSC01936.jpg)

[/color][/b][/size][/size]

Fixable?

Is that the seat mating area?

Does it show with the seat installed?

Yes, it is the seat mating area

Even with the DP touring seat 1/2" higher, it does show about half of the rub

Thanks

It doesn't look like the clear is gone to me. It looks marked up. It's really hard to tell in pics.

I would use some mild compound by hand, and adjust the seat, or tank, if possible to avoid it getting worse.

I used a can of exterior house paint, an oil based enamel, labeled " aluminium " brushed on the front sump fins which had lost the coating

At first it looked too bright and silvery,stuck out like doggie dangles, but after a few thousand K's it has settled in nicely, the heat doesn't seem to be bothering it either

 

It really is amazing how cool our aircooled engines run.

You can get away with almost any paint on the engine.

DucPainter,

How do I/painter match up the stock paint? Having the frame touched up, tail chop weld closed/painted.

There are companies that offer many of the colors.  I usually start there and tint, or get a color scan done and do the same tinting process.

It's not possible to scan a frame though. Is it the gold?

No, the Graphite grey.

Check into Nexxa or Akzo Nobel. They should offer something close enough to tint.

A buddy of mine painted the utter and the header on his monster with rattle can engine enamel. He scuffed the metal and degreased it. He gave it numerous coats with a 30 minute drying time in between. Several spots on the utter started to chip. Any ideas?
Is there such a thing as high temp. metal edging primer?

I'm not familiar with a high temp etching primer.

He might have better luck using a higher temp rated paint.

Headers get really hot...hotter than most engine enamels can take.

What temp. range would the paint have to withstand ?

I'd guess around 12-1500 degrees for a header.

Thanks Ducpainter,
I'll see what I can find...if I remember correctly BBQ paint
in a rattle can might match that rating.

When I was into air cooled VWs I tried every high temp and BBQ paint I could find.  None of them held onto the header right next to the exhaust port, too hot.  They all flaked off.  Also, they all tended to sort of chalk off over time and even on cooler parts where the paint held it would still tend to rust after a while.

Scott

A couple questions for DP or anyone else who might know. I've got a 2000 900ie tank that I'm going to repair and repaint. It has the corsa (I think it's called) design with the checkered flag on each side and stripe down the middle. First question is, are the checkered flaga and stripe decals? I'm guessing yes. And, if they are, do I need to remove them to repaint or can I sand them down? I plan on repainting in a simple solid black..........perhaps matte black.
Thanks very much in advance.

The checkerboard is painted....at least all the ones I've seen are.

Ducati has used two types of stripes. The S2R and newer are all vinyl.

The older M900 and S4 are painted with a vinyl border stripe.

That vinyl needs to be removed.

Your the best DP..........thanks very much

Just wanted to share.  I installed a Zard exhaust in the L/R High Mount.  The bracket furnished for the left side was fugly bare ss w/heat discoloration from the cutting process.  I surface prepped (sandblast) and coated with Rust-Oleum Auto gray sandable primer and top-coated with Rust-Oleum Auto High Gloss Cherry Red (209587).  I wasn't expecting much for color match but was totally surprised at the result.  The paint has been on about 2 weeks now and I can't tell the difference from the factory color under any type of light.  Considering I coughed up maybe $10 for the two this is a great way to handle the little nik-nak jobs like maybe touch-up for tail chops.

Word of caution - having been a professional painter you will never get the quality / durability of a "pro" paint job out of a can.

Tiger

hey ducpainter, thanks for all the tips.

i know this has been asked before and i got lost with all the other replies and posts... i want to paint my belt covers black (semi-gloss). i know i have to clean it nicely with something like dish detergent and scuff it with 400+ grit sandpaper, wash it again and dry it.

what would you recommend in terms of paint? bbq paint? hi-temp engine paint? i don't know how hot those covers get but i would suspect something under 150 degrees F.

would you recommend priming it with plastic primer or something like duplicolor primer? i have painted a fender with plastic primer and plastic paint and it came out perfect but there's no heat on the fender :) will primer hold ok with the heat?

my other question is about the wheels. my wheels are white and i want them black. which route would you recommend? i know that powdercoating would be ideal, but i would like something more affordable as i would have to remove the tires and valves off the wheel, have it powdercoated and then have a shop re-assamble the wheel, valves have it balanced, etc since i don't have those kind of tools. i can get the wheels off and on the bike easy but have notools to remove the tires and valves from the wheel.

do you think that painting with duplicolor wheel paint and primer would work fine? how resistant are those paints? and lastly, when the time to change the tire comes, will the tire removal machine damage the paint around the lips?

thanks so much! [bow_down]

Clean...scotchbrite...clean...

and use krylon fusion.
It will stick

You can put any krylon color/gloss level over it if it's not the look you want.

I wouldn't do the wheels with the tire mounted...

it's a PITA.

I'm not familiar with Duplicolor wheel paint and the prep they recommend.

I can't answer your question other than saying I wouldn't  do it that way.

More questions.  What would you use a high build primer for?  Would you recommend it?  Assuming I'm am going to use PPG paint of some kind, would I need a PPG finishing primer/sealer over any kind of high build coats?
Thanks very much in advance

I use a high build primer for surfacing over filler or filling feathered edges from chips etc.

The paint manufacturers will tell you to use a system. There was a time when the different companies made such different products that you couldn't be sure one would work with another.

Now, they seem to be more compatible. I don't necessarily use PPG sealers under PPG color, and I don't use PPG clear. I do always use one manufacturers additives like hardener. You can't use say PPG clear and DuPont hardener in it. That would be a recipe for disaster.

Whatever brand you use, use a sealer. It will give better adhesion, and allow you to use less paint to cover.

Cool that helps a lot.  I prefer your common sense answers rather than the very definite, non-explained answers I get at my local paint store.  Even if it does mean I have to buy another can of sealer. :) 

I don't suppose you would care to call the one year shelf life of unopened cans of primer/paint, a myth would you? I have a can of finish primer, which I assume is the same as a sealer primer, that has been kickin' around on my shelf for over 2 years.  I haven't added the catalyst, so common sense says it might be good, but I'm no chemist.  Painting one bike a year hasn't exactly stacked on the levels of experience.  Have you ever tried using something so old? 

Just trying to save a buddy of mine money and use stuff I already have laying around.  I'm sure its no good, but it can't hurt to ask.   

Thanks again (in advance...again)

In the paint stores defense, they can't tell you anything but manufacturer recs due to liability.

It really depends on the storage conditions.

If it hasn't been subjected to freezing temps I'd probably try it on a test panel to make sure it didn't 'seed'..(tiny dust like specks that develop on the surface after drying).

If it seems OK and you're on a budget go for it.

I'd be hesitant myself just because I'd have to redo the job if something went wrong and it wouldn't be good for my reputation,

This might be one of those circumstances where cheap is expensive and expensive is cheap...if you get my meaning.

My friend, hope you can field an easy one here, my big issue is I ran out of paint on my final coat of some high temp stuff...

I am painting pipes and headers, so far coming out solid, I will be baking them to cure after final coat. Instructions on the paint say apply 3 coats 10 minutes apart, the first two coats thin then the third wet, and make sure to do the last within one hour of the first, additional coats after that should allow aforementioned coats 7 days to cure. So I was on my 3rd coat and ran out of paint :( I tried to buy more in the morning but everywhere was out of stock and I have heard good things about the VHT Flameproof brand so I did not want to switch, when I ran out of paint all the stores were closed so I am stuck waiting a week either way, no biggie.

So my basic question, I ran out of paint on the 3rd coat but I am going to wait 7 days as the instructions recommend and then apply that last coat to the parts I ran out on, will that give me the same durability and finish as doing all at the same time? Should I scuff them a bit with 600 next week before I spray again? Obviously I am not going to strip and start from scratch but the plan is to finish up that last coat next week and then just do a 4th light coat to even them all off, then after 3 hours the instructions say I can start baking. My goal was to do everything "by the book" and I was meticulous about all my steps except for having enough paint, now I just want to make sure I don't ruin my efforts by making a mistake... Please let me know if there are any things I should know or if there are any glaring flaws in my plan, thanks!


Edit: also wondering if I should use this clear over the flat black to increase durability, I think this is a 'flat clear': http://www.cacustomcoatings.com/vhtclflsfi.html (http://www.cacustomcoatings.com/vhtclflsfi.html)

You must wait the seven days before recoating. It will lift otherwise.

You must scuff the applied paint. I would use 400 dry or a red scotch brite. The paint may be gummy as it requires heat to fully harden.

I would apply the final coat as a full wet coat. Light coats will have texture. I wouldn't bother with the clear, but if you use that as your final wet coat it shouldn't do any harm.

Thanks for the advice... Just a start to my day here, I have more of the black paint but I did not buy any clear. The gummy thing is no joke, these look beautiful but I can scratch it with a fingernail and my fingers leave prints on them, even after the 7 days. I am adding more coats today but I wanted to test out what was there. I went to the store to buy the clear but they didn't have it, I think my new strategy is going to be paint the last coats then cook these tonight, if the paint still seems soft after cooking I will do a coat of the clear in 7 days. Hopefully the clear isn't needed though, we'll see...

Ok... the pipes are cooking, so far so good. Seems like the instructions say for additional coats wait 7 days, which I did, but then it seems   they can be cooked after 3 hours or "ready to handle" drying time... It's a bit confusing because the 'can be handled' and 'recoat' dry times are drastically different.  [drink] [bacon] [bacon] [bacon] hoping this works out!!!

Re-coat and bake times are different.

You did it right.

Hey so it came out pretty good, I might do a little touching up in a few weeks but overall I am fine with it... thanks for the help.

I only really looked at it in the dark though so my opinion may change later  [thumbsup]

As a side note, wow those headers were a pain to get straight and back on correctly, from now on I am just going to ride it.

Awhile back I did my oil cooler with pot belly kettle paint, sloshed and brushed on, one coat. Came up well, and as expected, no hassles with heat. It's not tough, but a touch-up only takes seconds, the stuff is solvent based, dries almost instantly and blends in to the old invisibly.

Tried it on a belt cover, looked awful.

Bought a tin of black semi-gloss enamel, plain and simple interior house paint. One coat brushed on. The clutch and belt covers look really great, and are an excellent match for the overall colour scheme of the 2000 Dark. No effect from heat after several rides.

For the technical the covers were degreased, scrubbed and Scotchbrighted in detergent suds, dried and painted by brush, air dried. No primer, no sealer, no undercoat.
   
(http://www.machinerycleanery.com/MonstaBlackenedCU.jpg)

Next will be the swingarm and the muffler carriers, but I'm not so sure whether or not to do the whole motor. The alternator cover is crying out to be blackened and the sump too, then the crankcase wont look right...........

 I realize enamel house paint won't cut the mustard on the heads or barrels so hi-temp would be required but where do ya stop ! !

Anyone got links to pics of totally blackerated Monstas ?

Hey Ducpainter, thanks for the tips.

For the heatguard parts, what kind of flat black paint should I use?  Would normal spray paint due the trick?  Should I lightly sand the parts first?

I use catalyzed urethane for those. I would guess that regular rattle can stuff would work. Use recommended prep procedures for sanding. Usually 400 dry/600 wet. With rattle can enamels you can usually go a little coarser...320 dry/400 wet.

I finally (unfortunately) have a use for the paint thread.

Over the weekend, I was on a big group ride, came back to my bike at one of the stops and saw this:

(http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj71/sroberts152/IMG_0219.jpg)

a little further out for scale:

(http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj71/sroberts152/IMG_0223.jpg)

I have run this over in my head and measured it and there is no way this came from debris flying up, it didn't come from me getting on or off.  Only thing I can think is someone got to close walking by or tried to back into the spot, backed into me and took off.  It is right about the right spot for a cruiser (99% of the bikes on the ride were cruisers) tail section.  I can see it - back up, bump, stand up a bit as the bike rolls back, sit back down hard on the seat and hit the gas to roll away.

This panel is from a M696.  The replacement part, from my dealer is $320.  For 1 cover.  The whole color therapy kit is what, $800?  I want to keep this color and the color scheme on my 1100.  Is there an easy way to match this color, paint this and get it back or do I need to suck it up and buy a new piece?  It is plastic.  Scratch is not too deep but you can feel it without gloves on.

Or does someone have one they want to part with?

On a side note, is it a waste of time to send the pics to the ride organizers and let them know that people suck - not expecting money or saying it was their group and not to say they have any control over who they take money from to go on a group thing where monitoring everyone is not their job.

Is that the Dark color?  I have an 800 Dark and touch up small scratches with a black Sharpie marker.  If you haven't gone all the way through the primer it's fine on steel and yours is on plastic, so now worries about rust.  It's not perfect, that scratch looks a little big, and you may be far more picky than I am BUT it's cheap, quick, very easy to apply, and if you don't like it you can remove it with alcohol.  It at least takes the glaring white streak away.  I've got a small nick center tank right by the filler cap that you have to really look for to find after my 'Sharpie touch up'.

I've also been known to touch up small paint scratches with a crayon.  Scribble over the scratch back and forth with a similar color crayon and buff out.  The wax fills in small knicks nicely; requires occasional re-application.  Again, not perfect but I have trouble looking down the gun at a few hundred dollars to repaint something that's likely to scratch again.  If my fix makes it so I don't see it right away and it's not rusting I'm ok with it. 

Scott

Commonwealth I saw has it for $380, can I order from your dealer online?

Call them.. Munroe Motors in San Francisco. (No, I'm not affiliated with them except that they have taken money from me for 2 bikes).

It is all the way through paint and primer.  Not really deep but that white is the plastic.  Its about 1 1/2-2" across.  The smaler ones might be ok for that sort of touch but the bigger bit will probably need bondo, sand paper and paint.

I think what really bothers me is that I specifically went through and pulled the covers from my old 696, sat around while I waited for the 696 to sell, etc... just to have this look only to have it screwed up by someone too selfish to stand up for their mistake.  I think this scratch here is a one off thing and after a year + of riding around with these pieces  I had no issues, no other scratches, no problems so I don't think this will be a common occurance with replacing this.

It would be a shame to replace the panel for that scratch.  But the problem would be getting the gloss to match , so you would need both sides of the tank painted.  A repaint could be a bit cheaper than replacing the panel.

If I did the repaint correctly, I would have to do the cowling, the front fender and both sides of the tank.  And replace the decal.  Don't get me wrong, I've been thinking about doing the old school Ducati decal instead of the stock one.  But, I start to add up the cost of paining that, plus time (taking the parts off and putting them on, finding a painter, getting them painted, lost time riding, time sitting in traffic, etc...) it just seems frustrating.

A slightly nicer cheap fix would be to get matching paint in a small touch up bottle, I forget the company that offers Ducati colors but they're mentioned on the board somewhere.  Then just get a good artist brush and lay it in the scratch.  Again, you'll still see it but it's much less obvious.

I'm with you, if you do a paint repair do it right but the cost of repainting all the pieces on the bike so they all match perfectly is so pricey.  Aside from that, getting one new stock panel or a good repaint on just that panel may match or may be just a bit off.  You need a good painter to get a really good match, you need a little luck for the panel you order to match the one you already have.

Scott

This sounds like the best option yet - especially since my uncle is a painter and can help me do this right once I have the paint.

Searching...

ColorRite  http://www.colorrite.com/ (http://www.colorrite.com/)

When I sprayed my front fender (800 Dark, see earilier in this thread for details) I thought about getting an aerosol can of their paint but it was almost $40 plus shipping.  I ended up with some DupliColor and a matte clear over it bought locally that was way cheaper (Under $25 for two cans of color and one of matte) and is pretty close.  It was way cheaper even if it's not a perfect match, and it seems for Dark almost nothing is.

Still, a small touch up bottle of your color is not too pricey and probably a closer match than anything you're likely to find at the local auto shop.

Scott

You rock!  Ordering touch up pen now.   [thumbsup]

DP, I'm thinking about tackling a simple pin striping project.  Never done it before and it's not like I want to produce something that will get mistaken for Von Dutch's work.  My main goal is to be able to make stripes that are even thickness and go mostly where I want them to go.  I have plenty of things to practice on.

In your opinion do you think that basic striping is something that can be learned, or does it take natural artistic talent?

I think that it's all about 'seat' time, patience, and materials/equipment.

Start practicing. ;D

Keep in mind there is a tiny bit of science involved, so if you have any specific questions don't hesitate to ask.

I'll stop by the paint store today and get a couple striping brushes.  What about those little striping applicator devices with the roller wheels that I see advertised?  Are they worth getting?   They seem kind of like training wheels to me.

Thanks,

Bob

Thought about getting into this myself.  There are a few books out there that go over the basics.  Check your library.

Scott

I have never gotten the hang of a buegler striping tool. They're pretty 'touchy'.

That said, it's what Harley uses, as well as most major auto manus.

I think success with that is the same as with a brush...'seat time'. The advantage to those tools is the control of stripe width once you dial in the viscosity and hand speed.

I think DP is right.  I've seen them demo'd at trade shows and the cat behind the counter makes it look super easy.  Then again, that's what he does for a living.  Probably easier than a brush once you get the hang of it but not a no brainer.

Scott

Thanks guys, I came home yesterday with a size "00" Mack brush.  Should be more than good enough to practice with and to see if I have any hope of ever doing any real striping.

I just repainted the side covers on my bike, I used Plasti Kote Bumper color in Flat Black. More the look that I want on the bike, but, while drying the third coat, a heavy one, somehow the part tumbled and got marks. I sanded it with 1000grit sand paper and some of the markings went away, the larger ones stayed, how can I repair that?

You need to remove all the marks and spray again.

I'd use whatever grit you used for the initial prep and don't try to 'save' anything.

DP,

Nothing will be saved...

Thanks...!!!

Keep in mind that rattle can enamels can lift if you don't give enough dry time.

I think it's a week...check the can.

Also use a sanding block/pad. It will avoid trenches from using too much finger pressure on the gouges.

Check... [thumbsup]

Will do it on Sunday anyways... [drink]

Will need to buy then... spongy or hard or ???

Still need help on fixing tank ... paint chipped of on several places. will repaint with same color, but, not from the rattle can.... It will be done at a friends shop, only the tank, the rest, I've done at home... [thumbsup] Ducati logos will be changed to red[a donation]...

When finished, will post pics, promise 8)

Your choice...

I think I'd recommend a soft hand pad for a newb.

remember...the paper does the work...you just move it. ;)

DP,

Sorry to bother, how can I fix the tank? I'm doing the preping, my friend is doing the paint mix and actuall painting... The only OEM paint will be the one on the frame and wheels...

What's wrong with the tank besides chips?

That's it basically... As mentioned earlier, will repaint in the flat black tone of rattle can but using Dupont paint and I'mdoing the prep,  labor/materials is about a bottle of Scotch 18yrs...

Feather out the chips with 180 and prime.

Your buddy will probably want to final sand himself.

If not sand with 400 dry and make sure he seals the tank before color.

Well, he told me that I was going to "work" for my paint... I assume he'll do 'final details'...Somehow, the Dupont flat black is very very expensive...

Now, if I could get a pint of Ducati Corse red? to paint a stripe on the tank....

Thanks a lot DP...

Paint in general is outrageously expensive.

People don't realize...

I know, I'm an auto technician, learning on a Ducati on how to repair bikes...

Wished I had more to offer the world, but, I do what I can...

Godspeed...

Hey DP,

Need to ask, how do I paint the bezel around the headlamp in, you guess it, black?

ummmm...

sand it and paint it. ;D

I use epoxy primers on chrome for adhesion because I need to be sure...

sand with 320 and rattle can the thing. ;)

320, epoxy primer and rattle can... [thumbsup]
Can I get epoxy primer on rattle can?  :-[
Anyway I can painted black but still leave it like chrome, but black? Or, that's way over my pay grade?... ;D

I'm confused

Basically asked if I could get the epoxy primer on rattle can and if there's a way to 'painted black but looking like chrome'? But after a beer, I'll leave it at semi-gloss black...

you can't have it all. ;)

Yeap... Will start tomorrow with the sanding...How much sanding?

So you can see scratches.

..and you can get rattle can epoxy primer at some places.

Thanks....Now, I'll get one more beer... It's Saturday...

Nate,
I fabricated some mesh grills to install on the front OEM fender, I cut them, and now the big question, how can I install them?
To put inside the holes of the OEM fenders, and change the look, no $$$ for 'DP Diversion fender', plus mesh grill, comes of used air filters. It's already painted black.

I'd use SEM problem plastic repair.

Sets up quick and has never failed me.

Who makes it? or does have another name? Thanks

Got some fiberglass lying around in my friend's bodyshop, can I use it?

Today it's Mothers Day here in Panama, I came to do some work in the car and asked him about the SEM thing and he says he's heard of it, but, not to be found locally or at least under the name you gave me.

Know you're working, I've got time to do it, just wanted to know if I could savage the fiberglass sheet to use it. Thanks once again.

Fiberglass is not the best choice for bonding to plastic. It doesn't really stick.

JB weld would be better, but the regular kind takes forever to set up. If you had the quick set JB weld it should work. Just scuff up the bonding area with coarse (36) grit paper.

DP,
any other name for JBweld?

It may be easier for you to tell me what you can get.

JB weld is an epoxy type material. Epoxies, in general, stick to most anything if the surface is prepped correctly.

You kind of need a quick set product so you can hold it in place. It would be tough to clamp without marring paint.

>>> I'll do my homework

Like two component epoxy?

Fender all scratched from fall, will have to redo grills, fell on floor on shop and stepped on them...No worries, lots of used air filters to get mesh from at the shop...

All epoxies are 2K ;)

  :-[ :-[ :-[
Basically any of those that says that bonds metall to plastic will do?

Yup...

but look for a quick set product if you can.

I'll do...But, back to cutting and painting the grills. I sanded the fender with 340 grit to smooth it out, with what can I fill the scratches[the larger ones]?

There's a few ways...depends on how deep the scratches are.

I usually prep/smooth with 180 grit and prime.

You can try a primer surfacer, and then sand and paint. It depends also of the makeup of the product. Some fill better than others.

If you can feel the scratches with a fingernail use a polyester putty and then prime and sand. Try not to apply the putty over bare plastic.

Remember the fender is plastic and you should use an adhesion promoter intended for plastics before priming over bare plastic.

OK, thanks, the "largest" scratch is about 1mm deep...

That will need filling with putty.

dp,

from these brands, basf, akzo nobel,dupont, lanco, from which one can i get the adhesion promoter?

Clearcoat wise, I'll be using a BASF made brand, it'll be flat cleared.

What about this,
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2697/4182192709_77aa2156e9_m.jpg)

I tried to fix it the best I could before the polyester putty, did I actually messed up or ???

They probably all have one

Happy New Year, Nate [beer]

I've got a carbon fiber SBK front fender that I want to do something with. The thing has fogged up in parts of it and I'd like to see what you think, is it the clear coat and can be fixed or do I just need to paint the whole thing. here are some pics to help give you an idea of what I'm dealing with.

 (http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/bdfinally/fender007.jpg)

(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/bdfinally/fender014.jpg)


Thanks for your effort in this DIY project, it's much appreciated

It probably has not been cleared.

Try washing with denatured alcohol. If the fogginess goes away clear it with an automotive urethane.

Otherwise you'll need to paint it.

Hey Nate,

Happy New Year...

Been doing a lot of sanding, how far I need to go on the headlight bezel?

Same to you.

What are you going to coat it with?

As you told me earlier, epoxy primer and flat black paint and flat clear to protect it....

How was your New Year's Eve?

I'd just sand it dull. You don't have to remove the chrome. Finish with 320 or 400.

The epoxy primer can be sprayed slightly reduced as a sealer...don't sand.

If you can get a ss stage black urethane you can add the flattening agent and have a really durable coating while skipping the clear.

It was quiet. I stayed up for midnight. woohoo... [coffee]

Nate,
You told me, sand with 320... So I did...I see 'bronze/copper' color rings around bezel, did I over sand it? Now 400?... :o

Pls explain to me the above in bold/yellow, I have to 'translate to the paint mix guy, he speaks no English, has learned his trade by trial/error... [bang]

I waited for the sun to come up, tradition, and instead of coffee, a bottle of the bubbly stuff and then coffee....no rest for the wicked today.... [drink] [beer] [drink] [beer] [drink] [beer] [wine] [wine] [bacon] [evil] [popcorn]

You sanded more than you had to but did no harm. The 320 is fine.

SS is single stage. It requires no clear and is very durable. You can add a flattening agent to achieve the gloss you want.

What brand and system are you using?

DuPont...Chroma or something like that, Standox and some BASF brand[last 2 on request]...but I think we'll be using the Dupont paint on my bike, he'll now paint all the plastics in flat black, can I use the SS on plastics?

Nate, sorry for the hassle today, tomorrow I have to go to work and in the afternoon I'm going to his shop to sand away the 'rattle can' paint job I'd done to start preping for 'real' paint; that's why I'm asking.

Once again, thanks for all your help. You have no idea what is to repair a Ducati on $400+$250[bonus]/month...

Thank you all

The Dupont single stage product would be Chroma One. It requires an activator like clear. The flattening agent is 4531S.

As long as you use an adhesion promoter on bare plastic I wouldn't hesitate if you are buying the entire can of material and are trying to save. The Duc plastics are fairly rigid and urethanes are somewhat flexible. I'd have him use what he's comfortable with. I just offer the SS up to save money and booth time.

You can't polish flattened products. Make sure dust isn't going to be a problem.

Nate,

What would you recommend for the DSS? No one does PC here in Panama.

Thanks...

Same exact thing.

Epoxy primer and the SS top coat

Thanks, I'll write the info and keep it for when it'll be done....Need to ride....going nuts...

Enjoy...

I have a few questions.

I have set up a paint booth in my garage. it's 8'x4'x7'

1.
I'm going to put particle filters on the inlet and charcoal on the outlet of the booth, what kind of air flow would you consider optimal?

2.
I have priced some paints and noticed that moto specific paints cost a lot more than auto paint. I asked around and this is supposedly because motos flex more and the paint is formulated to cope with this.
By chance the guy I recently sold my trailer to was a paint chemist I asked him and he said "well... the cans are usually smaller... other than that, there's no difference."   

so which is it?

thanks

Your first question is loaded...no offense.

I'm no engineer. There are formulas for air change and velocity to maintain a safe environment. One air change/minute will keep things reasonably safe with a proper respirator. It won't take all the overspray to the filter because you'll lack velocity. If you increase the rates it will be difficult to heat the booth.

I had a member here run some numbers for me and based on engineering numbers I'd need a 1.5 million btu direct fired booth heater. That's not happening.

I will offer a piece of advice. Assuming you have a cross flow air set up put your man door on the same wall as the fan.

Regarding the chemists comment...he was telling the truth. Lacquer is lacquer...urethane is urethane.  What moto specific paint are you referring to?

I have a 2000 Ducati Monster 900ie Dark and through use and tire changes the painted black rims have been scratched.  Does anyone have a color code for that color black?  I am thinking about trying a touch up pen, but if that doesn't work or look good, I might have them painted. 
Thanks.

It's probably just a modified gloss black. Not glossy, but not exactly flat either.

I have seen black that didn't match a couple of times  ???  On one car somebody painted a fender and it looked a little brown, and on another, the black had a blue hue to it.  But for the most part, black is black.

I would totally disagree.  The hue or underlying color of your black comes into sharp relief when it's next to another black it does not match.

Blue, you might want to see if ColorRite has a touch up pen.  A bit pricey but they match pretty well.  I think their main matches are for frame and body, not sure if they can match the wheels.  I think Ducati may sometimes use slight different colors on the wheels.

On an unrelated note DP, there are lots of rattle can engine paints to choose from.  These are mostly single stage, not 2 part curing.  Since these will probably get warm or hot being on the engine, do they 'cure' more completely than say body panels with rattle can?  Specifically, would they be less suseptible to peeling if you spilled gasoline on them?  Just wonderin'.

Scott

AFAIK, things that cure on their own do not cure any better with heat.

Nothing is that simple. There are in fact blacks that are yellower or browner. Pick what you have.

If there is no activator there is no 'cure'.

It's a simple evaporation reaction.

You get what you pay for. ;)

So I've got a question about paint......

I purchased a used tank in good condition and it was sprayed black but no clear coat was put on. I was going to apply my decals and put the tank on the bike. My question is: Is there a downside to not putting a clear coat on? I called a couple places around here and the lowest I was quoted just to spray 1 coat of clear was 150...and seeing as how no job=no money....it's a bit of a road block. so should i get it clear coated? is 150 a good price?  thanks!

That could be a loaded question.

What was it sprayed with?

I'm not quite sure.... this is the tank I purchased:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380181017964&viewitem= (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380181017964&viewitem=)
I was told it was paint, but I have no idea how many coats or even what kind of paint

I'd put the decals on it and pay the buck and a half to have it cleared professionally. It looks good.

Awesome price BTW

Ok, will do! Thanks, I was happy i got it for that, but would have been happier if it was clear coated

So i just talked to the guy who was gonna clear coat it and he said that he's pretty booked, but if i want him to squeeze it in it's gonna cost another 100, so all in all 250 just to get it clearcoated....that sounds pretty ridiculous to me. Is this something i can do my self? or should i shop around or bite the $250 bullet?


something like this:
http://www.colorrite.com/product/aerosol-kk8-eggshell-clearcoat-kit-1008.cfm (http://www.colorrite.com/product/aerosol-kk8-eggshell-clearcoat-kit-1008.cfm)

I think $250 is pretty steep.

I'd shop around.

If you have a place to spray it the colorrite kit would work.

dp,


My buddy got so  #$#%@* off that, well, the guy still has a job, but, has to pay $45.00 for the SS Flat Black[yes, that's the price for a pint here]

This is how the front fender looks like,
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4046/4358794955_bdc870b6af_m.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2730/4358794949_230fbdbb4e_m.jpg)

I have a 2000 M900ie Dark. 
The previous owner had some custom pin-striping done on the tank over the original dark matte finish.  Of course, I love the bike, but not the pin-striping.  I took some acetone and a soft cloth and the pin-striping wipes right off revealing the original dark matte paint.  The original paint is in great shape on the tank. 
The issue with removing the custom paint is that there is a faint outline of where the pin-striping was.  If the tank was gloss, I would end up buffing the paint with my orbital buffer or clay-bar the finish, but with the matte finish I don't know what my options are (if any). 
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

You don't have options IMO.

If you buff the finish will get glossier, and I doubt it would fix anything. Add that there is very little paint the possibility of rub through is pretty good.

Refinish won't be an 'exact match' to the rest of the bike due to aging of the finish and the inherent color variance with the darks.

Give it time...it will even out with more 'aging'. ;)

Just to clarify...if I wipe off all of the pin-striping on the tank, I should leave the finish alone.  The color variation I am seeing is due to UV exposure fading the exposed "dark" matte finish?  Time in the sun will even the color out?
Thanks for the current and previous advice regarding touching up the wheel paint.

DP: I am getting a guy to mill my stock clutch cover and would like to paint it black. Where I work, we have endless amounts of lacquer based flat black. Assuming that the cover is aluminum, should I use vari-prime before painting? What about the lacquer based paint? Good idea or should I look into a different type of paint? Clear coat or no? Any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks!

That's it exactly. [thumbsup]

If you're using DuPont vari-prime will give you good adhesion. I prefer epoxies on all metal.

Lacquer is not the best choice due to a lack of solvent resistance, and also I don't believe lacquer can be used over vari-prime, or epoxy for that matter, without sanding. You'd have to look at the tech-sheet.

The absolute best system I've found is urethane over epoxy.

Works for the gubmint, the military, NASA, and me. ;)

I work in the stage-building industry and we use vari-prime with flat black lacquer on all aluminum. (soon to be illegal) It is quick and easy. I thought that the purpose of vari-prime was to apply the paint to the primer with it not fully cured so that the paint has something to bond to. Am I wrong?

I have sprayed epoxy paint. If you ever see Cirque du Soleil, check out the totally awesome gold! When I did that, I simply cleaned the surface with denatured alcohol and applied the paint directly to the aluminum. I was looking through our paint room and found Bulldog adhesion promoter. What if I sanded the clutch cover, applied the Bulldog, painted with an epoxy and clear coated? Thanks a bunch for the advice.

I'd skip the bulldog.

What kind of clear over the epoxy?

The clear coat that we currently have at work is an acrylic lacquer. Ratio is 1:1 with lacquer thinner. Not sure how durable it is but when I applied it directly to polished steel, it flaked right off. That was where to Bulldog came into play.... A little bit of light grit sand paper would help out eh?

Stopped at an Auto-Zone on the way home from work today and took a look at the selection of paint. There wasn't a whole lot to choose from. They had 2 types of clear in rattle cans: acrylic lacquer and acrylic enamel. Not sure if I am sold on either.

Lacquer won't hold up all that well to gas.

It's better than un-catalyzed enamel but not great.

It won't wash off but may stain.

There are 2K clear coats in rattle can.  You use the cap to pop something in the bottom which allows the two components to combine.  Then shake to mix.  You have a certain amount of time to spray before the cure has gone too far.  I haven't seen them in local shops but you can get them on the net.

I think it was on TOB where someone had spent a lot of time on a home done rattle can paint job.  They then painted the tank with a 2K rattle can clear and were really glad a few weeks later when they spilled gas all over it.  I'm guessing the spray pattern from the tip isn't the greatest but you can always wet sand/rub it out if you want a better finish.  If you're going rattle can clear to protect I'd go for one of these.

Scott

If you use a urethane clear over lacquer special steps must be taken or it won't stick.

If you clear over rattle can enamel it has to be done wet on wet, or the enamel must dry thoroughly to avoid lifting.

Thanks DP.

I dug deeper into the paint room and found about 5 gallons of Dupont clear coat on a shelf. The word on the street is that it has been sitting there for a long time. Not sure if it goes bad after a certain amount of time but it is automotive clear coat. The label says to use thinner for cutting it. Any experience with it? It is Dupont 380S

It's a lacquer clear.

It isn't going to change the lacquer paint you want to use.

Keep in mind they used lacquer on cars for years.

It isn't horrible stuff, and I prefer it over any other uncatalyzed product.

It's just not as good as the 2K stuff available today.

Duc-Painter- What primer-surfacer are you using over PPG's DP ?

also I have a 2006 S2r that needs a color change- what process do you recommend? Do I need to strip all the plastic to bare or just remove the vinyl stripe and recoat-clear?

I've been using a few, but I like HOK KD-2000.

I don't strip unless there is a problem.

Just pull the stripe feather and prime.

I probably wouldn't use DP on plastic. It won't stick any better and there's no corrosion involved.

Have fun.

agreed- I only use dp over bare metal or areas that are going to need filler. I have been using NCP260 for years now and no issues with it but just was wondering if there was any thing better/easier.

The PPG primers and surfacers are crazy expensive. Everything PPG is these days.

I haven't used the NCP much.

If you get a chance try the HOK KD. It's a hybrid epoxy. It has good adhesion and corrosion resistance. It is recommended over bare metal. It also fills like mad and drys to sand in 3 hours at 70.

I dug this up because there have been a bunch of threads around the board about using epoxy paint on various items.

Epoxy is great stuff, and I use it on all bare metal and often as a base for surfacers.

It sprays well, sticks to the surface like crazy,and also 'most' anything you put over it sticks to it.

Epoxy is not the best choice as a topcoat that is exposed to the elements however.

It is the reason carbon fiber looks like junk after a year or so if not cleared with a UV protective clear...

so if you want your hard work to hold up in the elements...

pick a different product as a topcoat.

Speaking of carbon fiber, what do you think the best way to paint my carbon fiber belt covers is? what should I use? I'd like to paint it flat black, or as flat as it can be with a clear coat.

Do you have access to professional spray equipment?

Yea but it would cost me. I'll arrange it if needed though

Also, it provides some of the best corrosion protection you can buy.

You betcha. [thumbsup] ;D
If you want what I would consider a 'good' job...

Sand with 400...

prime with an epoxy and then wet on wet spray with a urethane topcoat.

You can modify the gloss as necessary with whatever manufacturers product you're using

Ducpainter,
First of all, thanks for allowing us to peek into your well of experience and expertise. 

Based on 30 pages of Q&A, I think I've formulated how to address my issue but I thought I'd ask since I don't think my situation has been directly represented. 

I'm giving a 2007 Silver S2R1000 a second lease on life after falling victim of being parted out by the previous owner.  The previous owner peeled off all the fuel tank stripes leaving sharp clear coat edges and exposing "virgin" basecoat paint where the stripes used to be.  Otherwise the tank is in great condition with only superficial storage scuffs in the clear coat. 

What is the best way to bring the tank back to stock finish?  I'm assuming these steps:
- Degrease/clean
- Fair clearcoat edges and sand clearcoat
- Clean and Tack
- Apply Factory black strip
- Clear entire tank

Can you provide any advice if this is the proper steps and what paper grit and clearcoat type to use (catalyzed urethane?)?

Thanks.

You're close...

Unfortunately I've never had any luck feathering back the clear without damaging the base coat...particularly a metallic.

The fastest and easiest way is to bite the bullet and plan on spot priming and painting the area.

DP, I plan on Powder coating several parts on my bike. Many of them are anodized aluminium. What do I need to do to the parts for prep? Is it as simple as washing the parts? Do I have to chemicly remove the anodizing first? I will strip all of the painted parts.  I have never used powder before. Is it similar to spraying paint? Thank you.

I have to be honest. I'm not a powder coater.

If I was painting an anodized part I would sand/scotchbrite, epoxy prime, and urethane topcoat. That is an accepted process for Mil/Aerospace. Those processes address the issue of corrosion. Powder processes don't as there is no primer or coating other than the topcoat.

If powder will stick to anodizing I'd do the same thing, but I don't know if it will.

Thank you.

hey DP,

got my bike finished, sorry no pics yet, heavens have opened the rainy season big time here; so, in accordance to riding in the rain, I washed my bike with Coral Blue or something like that motorcycle washing liquid[bottle cracked so I refilled another] and suddenly all flat black parts[front fender, side covers, rear fender and beer tray] are glossy...Cleaned the tank with a 100% towel of mine, no water no soap, still flat black...
what happened?

The blue coral had wax in it. Most commercial wash products do.

Get some wax and grease remover from the shop and wipe the parts down. If they're fresh wait a while.

Like Formula 89? Or less strong?

Don't know that product.

I'm thinking like PPG DX330 or DuPont 3939 or DuPont Prep-Sol.

Your parts have been painted for a while. None of those products should hurt it if used according to instructions.

If the parts are less than 30 days old wait.

it's like the Purple something degreaser...

Most degreasers will remove wax to some extent.

Try it on a bottom edge.

Ok, tks

so i've been going nuts trying to plan my tank painting project using only rattle can technology. since I am going for the dark look and don;t need anything fancy.  (doesn't have to match OEM dark paint since I am doing the cowl and fender as well, and I wanted to go a bit darker than the stock dark look).


I was going to go with the duplicolor truck/SUV universal black with a krylon flat coat over it, but this will not provide protection from gasoline. I want that protection.

so here is where I am going:

it's an S2r tank with clear over vinyl striping.

• sand off enough clearcoat to get the stripes and decals off. degrease, smoothen out, etc.
• spray on duplicolor filler primer, light sanding to smoothen it out (I believe their primers are lacquer)
• use a 1 stage acrylic urethane flat black paint (found a reasonably priced kit on Eastwood's site that includes the activator) using eastwood's version of the preval sprayer (since I don't have a spray gun).
• cross fingers

what do you think Nate?

I think you're on the right track.

Do all the degreasing first.

Lacquer primer shrinks. So use it only to fill minor scratches. It won't level much.

I believe you'll have trouble with the Pre-Val with activated urethane. I can't get that stuff out of one of those and I used to be pretty good with a rattle can. You may consider a test panel and adjusting the reducer to achieve flow.

Make sure you spray wet enough to get flow and you'll probably be OK. Getting closer is not the solution. You need to slow your hand down, or keep putting it on till it flows. Keep in mind if it flows level from the droplets it can also 'flow' right off. ;D

thanks, DP. this should be interesting. but what's the fun of working on your bike and having everything go right the first  time?

DP,

you think I should do a sealer primer over the filler primer or is that overkill?

is it ok to do 2 or 3 coats of primer before the final color coat?

I use a sealer. I also only use activated products except for color.

Sealers save time because it usually takes fewer coats of color to get the result you're looking for. Activated sealers also improve adhesion.

What are you planning on using?

I have a few nicks on the tank and was going to apply some glazing and spot putty. I already put on a coat of rattle can filler primer (lacquer-based).  I have to do sme more spot sanding where I'm putting the spot filler and was going to do another coat of primer using rattle can Sealer primer.

Sealer always makes it easier to cover.

Be careful about too many coats, and heavy coats.

It will really lengthen dry times.

thanks.

and the fun continues...

I'm going back to 999 masters on the monster to clean it up a bit.

I'd like to paint or somehow change the color on the masters from the cast aluminum to something darker, maybe a deep bronze?

Whats the best way to do this?  Since parts arn't available to rebuild the master, stripping it down and PC'ing it seems risky at best.  I've tried using that 2 part caliper paint in the past, but I don't have the ability to spray it, and I can never get the brush strokes out.  I'm sure there is a way, just not sure what that is (heat gun?)

Help please :)

My expertise is not with a brush.

I think I'd try using a little slow drying urethane reducer...

or figure out how to spray it. ;)

I'm not a painter by any means, but, I've got a set of 749S masters, same as yours no levers, I just cleaned the whole surface with brake cleaner, dregreaser, some brillo pads, and some more brake cleaner, I then just bought a can of the color I want the body of the master to be and masked the covers, which, for the time being, are painted with gold paint[don't tell my wife where her paint was used] and sprayed with the dark charcoal grey paint I bought at the hardware store.

I'd assume I want a 2 part paint at a min on something like this.

Think a preval can will work to spray epoxy?

I wouldn't use epoxy for the masters, unless that was your primer and you used a 2 part urethane over it.

I don't use epoxy for parts exposed to the sun.

If you reduced sufficiently I believe you could use a Pre-Val and spray multiple thin coats.

dp,

I'm between purchasing a used, CF fairing for my Monster, it's missing the clips that hold the windscreen; can these be manufactured at home? How can I manufacture them? I'll paint the fairing in flat black as the rest of the bike, so...

DP, many older British bikes have a tank that's part chrome and part painted.  How do they do this?  I would think the paint would flake off if there's chrome underneath.

Thanks,

Scott

If the chrome is left smooth it does just that. I've seen lots that have lost their paint. I often wonder what was done to the Monster tanks that were chrome and paint combos

Sometimes the painted area will be lightly sandblasted to achieve enough roughness for paint adhesion. That's what I would do.

I plan on painting a alum. bicycle frame. Im looking for a "bassboat" type finish. I have been to the local auto paint store and have not found a paint that meets the "bassboat" spec. Im thinking that this will have to be custom. Im now thinking that it may be a multi stage job. Please tell me if I have got this correct.
1st: epoxy primer
2nd: Heavy metalic flake silver dust coat
3rd: Heavy metalic flake silver color coat
4th: candy orange (# of coats to get desired color/shade)
5th: color sand
6th: clear coat and Decals
7th: final clear coat

Will this work ? thanks.









;

Look at House of Kolor for your system. It's available online.

It won't work exactly as you have it, but close.

After the primer you need to decide what color you want to lay your flake over. I've done silver flake over black and over silver. The flake will cover better over a lighter color.

The bassboat flake should be put on in full wet coats so it lays down as flat as possible. You'll need a fairly large fluid tip depending on flake size. You want to limit the number of coats to achieve that flatness. The flake will give you a very rough surface. It will need to be cleared and sanded before the candy orange is applied or you'll sand through the candy showing raw flake.

Depending on whose products you're using you may have to clear the candy before decals and then clear again.

When I do a flake job there is always a minimum of 9 coats of clear.

HTH

Hi DP,

so I tried to shoot hot rod black on some test pieces with a gun I got to play around with.  didn't work out so hot, so plan b is now to shoot my pieces with rattle can duplicolor paint and follow up with a special lacquer flat clearcoat that is supposedly gas-proof (It's made for model airplanes).

I'm shooting tank, cowl, and fender to emulate the dark color scheme (not color match, just the sheen).

so here are my 2 questions:

I know rattle cans spray much thinner coats than a gun, so I am expecting to end up with 5-6 coats of base and probably 3-4 coats of clear.
started shooting the tank, but so muggy this weekend, I got some light orange peel and some scratches from primer coat also showed up.

can I wet color-sand the base to smoothen it out and if so, 1000, 1600, 2000 grit? or will the clearcoat hide this?

Can a flat clear coat be wet-sanded?

TIA.

sand the color all you want with 600...but you'll have to apply more. Clear doesn't hide much.

A flat clear can't be touched unless you plan on re-applying.

thanks, DP.

I'm hoping by this weekend she will be all back together.

So, I just painted my metal monster tank in an attempt to replicate the "dark" paint scheme (tank I was painting came with the stock dark paint with a metallic ghost flame over spray). 
Everything was working out really well until the end.  The flat clear coat that I was applying started to "fog" out of the nozzle while I was finishing up.  The result is a light dusting effect on the tank in a couple of places.  Is there no hope?  I had thought about sanding or using a rubbing compound, but I thought I would check here first.  Using a finger I can wipe some of it off; ideas?
Thanks.

is this from a rattlecan?

If so, I had the same problem in some spots and I was able to just use my hand to rub off the textured spots where the clear dried before making contact.   just make sure its well dried before you do it.

 

Cool, thanks for the information and yes, this is from a rattle can.  I bought the bike with a "custom" paint job on the tank (see flames in my previous post).  It may be cool to some, but it isn't for me.  I wanted to see what the bike looked like matte black as it was originally.  If I like the color, I am planning on having it professionally done this winter. 
I really like gloss black, though... :-\
<looks in the garage at the gloss black truck and other the gloss black motorcycle> [laugh]

Oh and how long should I wait after painting before I give the bike a bath?

You can sand the flat clear lightly once it's dry and then recoat with the same.  If you just sand or use rubbign compound it probably won't match the final finish on the rest of the tank.

Scott

Also a fan of the gloss black

Here are a few photos of the new paint job.  
DupliColor T090
Krylon Matte Clear
I waited a week after painting to handle the tank, put it back on the bike and to wash the whole bike.  
It is not a perfect match; a bit lighter than the stock dark matte on the bike (front fender).  
I did this to see if I like the dark or if I want to go with gloss black (professional, two-stage).  I am out about $25 for two cans of paint, one can of clear and a quart of acetone to remove the custom flame job.  It took no more that 3 hours total; 2 hours preparing the tank and an hour painting.  Of course, there was the week that I could not ride (this bike).
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4118/4806298336_9caf214f81_b.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4136/4805673561_72403f4b0d_b.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4081/4805671691_98a6307518_b.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4081/4806292214_b1309aee48_b.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4115/4805665927_4f67bc03c7_b.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4081/4806303626_1c9a222a87_b.jpg)

Looks good and just like mine with the same paints, just a little more sheen and shine in the sunlight than the stock Dark color.  Careful filling up, I don't think these paints are very resistant to gasoline.

Scott

Nabbed a windscreen and fairing from an S2R off here (thanks, corey) and am looking to slap it on my bike with a little modification. The fairing has a gloss factory finish now and my 620 is Dark. I'd like to knock the gloss finish off and rattle can a clear matte finish to have it blend a little better. So after 30+ pages of tips, here's my plan...

Careful 400 just to knock off the gloss finish. A good cleaning and allow to dry followed by 3 or 4 coats of matte clear with drying time between coats. Any suggestions for improvement?

I figure worst case scenario, I end up sending it off for a professional black matte treatment but I kind of like the tangerine if I can get the finish to match a little better. Of course that may change when it's actually on the bike and out of the garage.

400 grit might be a little coarse to clear over.  It's fine if you are priming over it, but I'd do my final sanding with 600 grit if you are just clearing over the black.  And be careful not to sand through the black basecoat otherwise you will be redoing that too.  If you see ANY black on the sandpaper, stop sanding.

FYI, the Dark black has lots of little metal flecks in it.  If the gloss black doesn't it may not match after the flat clear.

DupliColor T090 Truck & SUV Universal Black followed by Krylon flat clear is a pretty good match and has held up well on my front fender over a season.  These paints are easy to find and inexpensive.  Try it on a piece of scrap first and see what you think.  Or maybe just a light dusting of silver over the sanded black and then a flat clear.  I think someone did sliver dusting over black a few pages back in this thread and it looked pretty good.

Scott

Some might call me crazy...the fairing is off a tangerine S2R, so it's gonna stick out like sore thumb. I like the tangerine, but the finishes look bad together. Hell, it may all look bad together when I get it done but as you said the Krylon flat clear is cheap so I thought I'd give it a try.

Hey Nate,

Congrats before everything else.

Now to bussiness, I've got a CF rear fender, as you might know, here in the tropics the Sun is relentless on any type of finish.

Can you recommend any UV clear for it? The guys at the paint shop wont touch it unless I give them precise instructions; CF down here is very very exotic...

Tks and enjoy the new stage in life...

Tell them to sand it with 600 wet and clear with the highest quality clear they can buy.

You will all of a sudden see millions of pinholes.

The next step is what gets time consuming...

you have to fill every one with a brush after re-sanding.

Then you sand flat and re-clear.

Or you can buy a new one and have it cleared before you install it.

The new part will have fewer pinholes because the epoxy resin hasn't degraded yet.

...and then you will go crosseyed. Ask me how I know.
It's amazing how many flaws you will find in a CF piece.

How do you know???

You said to ask...

Smartass ;D

Hey, I follow instructions...  8) [beer] [roll]

G'day DP.

I'm not sure if someone has covered this.
A friend had his Superlight frame powder coated and it looked great. I thought I may get my frame powder coated with my wheels in the future. Both have paint that is servicable but will need a freshen up in a few years. When I asked some guys who weld for a living about this they said not to powder coat Chromemoly (spelling?) as the heat run thru the frame anneals the welds with that material. They said to have it painted instead.
Do you know if this is true?

I'd be very surprised if the powder coating got anyhwere near hot enough to anneal the frame, and FWIW, it's probably not chrome-moly

The newer frames are indeed mild steel.

The problem with powder coaters, notice I didn't say coating, is in the way they remove old material. Many will put a part in the oven and set the temp at some ridiculous number like 800 degrees to burn off any coating then blast and recoat.

Those temps will change the structure of steel, but not necessarily for the worse.

The temp of the oven for curing powder is about 350, and I wouldn't worry about that at all.

Thanks heaps DP.

I'm redoing my painted beer tray.

It has adhesive spray, red spray, vinyl stripes and the clear coates.
There are some scratches from bag straps - down to bare plastic.

Must it all come off to start over or can I do individual spots?

There are a couple of things to consider.

Over all film thickness is the major factor along with what your next scheme will be.

Do you have any idea the film thickness of what is already there, and what do you want to 'see' when it's re-done?

Oh... there's a lot of rattle can paint on there now.
My first thought was that the adhesive coat, which has to go on the bare plastic in some small parts, would conflict with the paint which is already there.

I want to start with adhesive and I might as well strip it all down - then I'll have a layer of white, because the red was hard to get right on top of black plastic. Red doesn't cover well I guess.

Good thing about the white is that then I'll be able to have painted white stripes instead of the vinyl.

Ok with you DP?

Th adhesion promoter shouldn't bother the color that's there.

How are you planning on stripping it?

Plastics don't like stripper.

...and yes a coat of white will make the job go much faster as you don't need as much red to cover...it will probably look like a different color. ;)